News today in the Independent on Sunday [story below] that DCI Paul Settle could not have been responsible for leaking the personal details of the alleged VIP abuse victims known as ‘Darren’ and ‘Nick’ because DCI Settle had been removed from Operation Fairbank by the time the police had Darren’s details.
Let me begin by stating clearly that I’m a huge supporter of the principle of anonymity for complainants in sexual abuse cases, I just happen to think that those complainants, like Darren’ and ‘Nick’ must bear some responsibility for maintaining it and not blame others because they’ve effectively identified themselves on social media and elsewhere. By doing this they make a mockery of the principle of anonymity which is there to protect the vulnerable and they allow critics to question whether victims should have anonymity.
In the case of ‘Nick’ the accumulative information from the Exaro stories, his writing on two different blogs, his social media activity, and information from two other sources was enough to easily identify him. It is alleged that BBC Panorama knocked on his door in the course of making the programme. Some suggest that this allegation of a leak relates to him but as you can see, Nick published enough information to identify himself. If we can identify him without the need of a senior Met leak then I’m pretty sure the BBC can.
In Darren’s case he was doorstepped by journalists from the Sunday Telegraph who on the 19th September reported that ‘Darren’ had been previously sentenced to two years in jail for making hoax bomb calls, nuisance and threatening calls about neighbours and criminal damage and that separately to this he had falsely confessed to the rape and murder of a prostitute in the midst of a high profile police manhunt in the 1990s. HERE The Sunday Telegraph did not identify ‘Darren’ or provide any personal details that may have led to his identification.
We first learn that the Met are investigating a senior officer for allegedly leaking Darren’s (or Nick’s) details two weeks later on Exaro HERE on the eve of the BBC Panorama when Exaro’s Editor-in-Chief, Mark Watts, is desperately pulling out all the stops attempting to get the programme pulled at the last minute.
Putting aside the fact that DCI Paul Settle couldn’t have leaked this information, why on Earth would The Sunday Telegraph need to have Darren’s personal details leaked to them ?
‘Darren’ has been talking to the media for the last 18 months at least. The only time he has complained is on this occasion when The Telegraph reported his history of hoaxing which called into question his credibility as a VIP Child Abuse witness. ‘Darren’ has been writing on social media and the obscured image that I’ve used of him above comes from a video which is freely available to watch online and which shows him talking to a crowd including journalists. In this video he gives numerous personal details and other details which identify him as Exaro’s source known as ‘Darren’.
So, I ask again; Why would The Telegraph need to have a senior police officer tell them who ‘Darren’ was when it was easy enough to find out for themselves ? We here on The Needle knew who he was and we didn’t need someone from the Met to tell us.
If you want to know why DCI Paul Settle was investigated over this trumped up allegation then you need to understand what happened before, during, and after the 19th May 2014, the date DCI Settle was removed from the Operation Fairbank investigation. Before that date Settle and his team of officers conducted the kind of professional investigation that the general public would expect, on that date following an intervention by Tom Watson MP and a series of news stories by Exaro and The Sunday People, the senior management of the Metropolitan Police went into panic mode, and following that date the Metropolitan Police management have spent the last 18 months investigating Exaro’s conspiracy theories, too afraid, too craven to drop it and admit they were wrong.
I’m not criticising the police detectives who have been on the case over the last 18 months but the senior management who have directed them in this folly. The term, lions led by donkeys springs to mind.
So, if you want to know why Exaro News and the senior management of the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) are desperate to hang DCI Settle out to dry then you need to understand that they are both complicit in the farcical handling of these important CSA investigations over the last 18 months and you need to understand that if they can find a way to undermine Paul Settle they might be able to justify their decision to publicly attack him, in the case of Exaro, and remove him, in the case of the MPS management.
Forget the spin, that is what is going on.
The Metropolitan Police’s attempt to identify the officer who leaked personal details of an alleged victim of child abuse to the media has run into difficulties.
A “senior officer” had been suspected of “improperly disclosing to journalists the name, address and other details of a complainant who had alleged to… detectives that he was sexually abused as a boy by a politician and other VIPs in London”. And journalists had been turning up at the accuser’s door, seemingly as a result of this leaking.
But the Met’s Directorate of Professional Standards has been told that the senior officer, believed to be DCI Paul Settle, had been relieved of his duties on Operation Fernbridge by the time the police had the complainant’s personal details.
Police sources say he had no access to any such information from mid-May, so he could not have been responsible for the leak. He had been removed following his decision not to interview Lord Brittan over a rape allegation that police later decided was not to be pursued.
A Home Affairs Select Committee examination of the police’s failure to inform Lord Brittan that he had been cleared of the rape is to be published this month, and senior police are not expected to emerge well from it.
Members of the committee privately expressed surprise when, asked what he had been doing since Operation Fernbridge, DCI Settle said: “Not a great deal.”
Scotland Yard said it would not confirm who is the subject of this investigation and that DCI Settle was unavailable for comment.
34 responses to “DCI Paul Settle Did Not Leak VIP Accuser Details”
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Thanks for your comments, which I appreciate.
There does seem to be something of a culture change being imposed on the higher echelons of the police.
David Compton was given a torrid time by the HOC Select Committee after the Andrew Norfolk Rotherham report was published in the Times in 2012. The absolute priority given to community cohesion which had served him so well in W Yorks in terms of advancement, suddenly didn’t look so clever any more.
And it does appear that some police feet are being held to the fire
It’s surely time that the Labour Party investigation into suspended Rotherham councillors reported
The rabbit in the headlights paralysis can’t go on indefinitely
You are totally wrong. Well over half the enquiry is not in the public domain, and it remains a murder enquiry. ‘Others’ are now involved.
Your points are well made. I’m one of those people who’ve only re-engaged with politics. There are many things, as a 60+ year old, that bother me. You’ve made me a little more thoughtful. I was always a great believer in the old ee cummings line.
“A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man”
I should say that I was a member of a religious community for 17 years so I
do sometimes struggle with idealism vs. practicality. Or perhaps what I should say is that I’m very concious of this balance. You are correct. There is no excuse for allowing grooming to go on and there should be more of a focus on enablers and people who turned a blind eye to grooming and the abuse of children in care in the past, rather than on high visibility pop stars.
We have to depend on the plod to bring people to the courts. How can they be re-directed?
“I understand now why you are having a go at Watson, because you think he is similarly keeping an eye on his own majority and fighting a big fight in public while ignoring the shit in his own back yard.”
Danczuk’s no better
Here we see him grinning like a Cheshire cat at Cyril’s blue plaque ceremony
A year later he denounced him in Parliament
What changed apart from the massive publicity accorded to the 3rd Rochdale trial group/gang of May 2012? Cyril’s proclivities had of course been revealed many years earlier
Danczuk’s choice of prime target – a dead political opponent – must be regarded as questionable in the extreme given the extent and continuation of the grooming plague in E Lancs.
“Historically though, that is because there are large populations of native people in the North, like me, for whom socialism is part of our culture and family heritage. I am from a mining family.”
I do appreciate this, and to me this makes Labour’s despicable betrayal of grooming victims and their families all the greater – my roots are also solidly working class, Lancs cotton going back earlier last century(my great great grandfather was a “teazer” in a cotton mill circa 1841 ie a child slave).
You might say well Danczuk’s a right wing careerist(which is no doubt the case as far as the opportunism goes certainly) but are the “Corbynistas” any better? I disagree when you say there is nothing in any “political philosophy” which has caused this “failure”. The left has an enormous blind spot, because the grooming victims were the wrong sort of victims, and the perpetrators the wrong sort of abusers; Rotherham and Rochdale just did not compute
“”The problem with child abuse, for someone like Corbyn, is that it dosen’t slot neatly into a hard left paradigm. The various child abuse scandals raise some uncomfortable issues for the left.
One is whether some left-wing politicians and local authorities put identity politics – gay rights, multiculturalism – above the protection of children; evidence from Islington in the 1980s to the recent child exploitation scandals in Rochdale and Rotherham suggests pretty conclusively that they did.
Another is the failure of left-wing councils and trade unions to support whistleblowers in scandals involving the public sector – something shockingly evident in Islington, and later in Rochdale and Rotherham, where the sexual health workers and youth workers who tried to expose what was going on were ignored, derided and bullied into silence. Honest politicians on the left will acknowledge and face up to these issues, and think about how we can do things differently in the future; not ignore them”
I don’t know who these “honest politicians of the left” are and I regard the Labour Party as completely beyond redemption, and a total write off.
Labour’s guilt as regards CSE is very much stronger than that of the Tories, it is of an entirely different order of magnitude . One cannot honestly compare a partly vote driven blind eye to an epidemic of group/gang grooming, mass rape, sexual torture, trafficking, pimping, prostitution, corruption of police and councils, making extreme threats to victims and families with Savile, and the Tory dealings with him. There are 300 suspects as regards Rotherham CSE alone.
The guilt of the Tory Party lies in another principal direction. They are the political wing of the City of London and they have devastated this country, and sold it down the river. I do wonder if the assaults on them over CSE(particularly as regards Thatcherite targets) are not more vicarious and indirect, an emotionally based attack rather than one justified by the CSE evidence we have seen thus far and the historical record.
I think in sum, if push comes to shove, I would rather a Tory government when it comes to CSE rather than a Labour one – but I would rather eat my arm than vote for either of them(I used to be a Labour Party member during the nineties).
You mentioned the police force, at command level they seem to me to be despicable – at the beck and call of their politicians nationally and locally. Thus SYP bashed the miners at the behest of the Tories, and they ignored Rotherham model CSE where Labour pulled the strings
The intimidation of the Home Office researcher, by SYP and Rotherham Council. in 2002 – as I recall she was told by police that it would be shame if the groomers found out where she lived – showed collusion of the most sinister and disturbing kind.
Whether SYP are the worst, or they have just been found out, 42 of their Rotherham plods are under investigation is a moot point. There are strong grounds for believing that WMP are just as bad.
As far as the Muslim community is concerned a very strong message has to be sent in terms of rigorous prosecuting activity – to some extent this is now happening
with trials shortly scheduled to take place for alleged group/gang CSE offences in Keighley, Newcastle, Halifax, Rotherham – there are around 70 defendants in total.
More must be done – in the West Midlands for instance there has only been one gang conviction – this is totally unsatisfactory. Especially now that it has emerged – thanks to a redacted report obtained by the local press – that WMP’s spineless dereliction is partly a product of concern for community cohesion – appeasement by any other name.
On your British Empire point from what I have read(eg Andrew Roberts’ Eminent Churchillians) the ruling class couldn’t take the loss of Empire and tried to substitute it with the notion of a British Commonwealth of Nations, and that New Commonwealth immigration essentially flowed from that. They were hooked up on the “I am a Roman Citizen” notion, they’d imbibed it at public school I suppose.
It does seem a bit hard though that the descendants of child slaves in mills and factories should have to bear the Rotherham, Rochdale et al consequences, but I suppose that’s all of piece with the track record as far as working class people are concerned.
I agree with you that the politicians you mention here have been pathetic in their dealing with the problem of grooming, seemingly with an eye on their electoral majority. I understand now why you are having a go at Watson, because you think he is similarly keeping an eye on his own majority and fighting a big fight in public while ignoring the shit in his own back yard.
You seem to suggest this is purely a Labour Party weakness and indeed the Labour Party have traditionally held more council seats and parliamentary seats in the Northern cities where there are large immigrant populations. Historically though, that is because there are large populations of native people in the North, like me, for whom socialism is part of our culture and family heritage. I am from a mining family.
So now, at this stage, what do you want to happen in these cities? Clearly you’d like weak politicians to be voted out of office for what seems to be a degree of wilful ignorance and duplicity. What would you do about the police force in these areas? Clearly they failed miserably to investigate and prosecute crimes, especially serious ones like grooming. Then, what should those Muslim communities do to stop this happening ever again? How will you work with those communities?
My point about Saville and the Tory Party is not that Saville commanded the white middle-class vote, but that if the Tory party start unpacking the egregious failures which led to a Tory PM lunching regularly with one of the worst child abusers we are aware of, it would not go well with their voter base. Hence, there has never been any enquiry nor any apology. It was Thatcher herself who helped embed Saville deeper into the NHS. She and presumably her advisers, thought that dealing with him and his schemes would be good for votes. They were weak and stupid politicians who should have been a lot more careful. As a result of that lack of care, hundreds, perhaps thousands of young children, some very vulnerable indeed, were badly damaged by a monster.
You cannot blame ordinary members of either the Labour Party or the Tory Party for these failures. Nor is there anything in each political philosophy which you can point to as a cause of these failures. Clearly you have a head of steam about these particular politicians and I would not discourage you in your campaign to have them held accountable. Perhaps individuals in the Labour Party were venal and calculating. It seems a stretch to involve Prescott, but go ahead. There has been fraud in postal voting all over the country and it seems to be a particular problem with some Asian communities. How should we deal with these communities? Presumably they are all being watched very closely now as people travel back and forward to Syria. Integrating and including these communities is a very difficult problem. These people are here in the UK as a direct result of the venality and hubris of the British Empire. What would you do better than is being done now to communicate and indeed enforce UK law?
In truth, no-one really cared about working class girls being groomed. Neither the police, the councils, the community leaders nor the politicians. That’s what I took from my understanding of the Jay report. How should we sort this out? What should change? I’d be perfectly happy to lose a large number of tainted MPs, including labour MPs, from Westminster. But who will oppose the further weakening of the police force and the expansion of less accountable schools and nurseries? There are only two parties who can reasonably be expected to win an electoral majority in the UK parliament. If you believe the Labour Party to be corrupt to the core, then there is no possibility of renewal. I don’t accept that point of view.
“Denis MacShane is a convicted fraudster who served time in prison. I honestly don’t think his reflections in his ‘Prison Diaries’ take us anywhere. ”
I’m not suprised that that is your view, it was however the very fact that he was caught out on his expenses, prosecuted and imprisoned that led to his above admission. Falling off the gravy train resulted in his telling the truth at last. What he describes in the above quote is exactly correct.
I notice that you have no comment to offer on the further evidence that I posted ie the view of Prof Jay and the admission of Barry Sheerman MP
“Instead, she believes the Labour-dominated council turned a blind eye to the problem because of “their desire to accommodate a community that would be expected to vote Labour, to not rock the boat, to keep a lid on it, to hope it would go away.”
“MP Barry Sheerman, who chaired the Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee – now the Education Select Committee – between 2007 and 2010, said he felt “guilty” about the Rotherham abuse scandal.
The Labour MP for Huddersfield said MPs were aware vulnerable children were being sexual exploited “up and down the country”.
He said: “We knew about that, we didn’t do enough about it. Members of this house, many of us, knew what was going on”
Sherman describe the classic grooming gang modus operandi 3 years earlier
“Schoolgirls are being lured into prostitution, MP warns
Schoolgirls as young as 12 are being groomed into prostitution by gangs of men, a senior MP has warned”
without of course being too specific about the composition of the gangs.
Labour MPs and councillors and party members were well aware of this. Ann Cryer who did speak out publicly and controversially commented later
“Friends of mine in the Labour Party knew about it [grooming] for years and never mentioned it to me,” she said.
“It was difficult for me to raise the issue without being called a racist.”
And of course the Edge of the City C4 documentary about Bradford was eventually broadcast having been delayed because of the usual community cohesion considerations.
Mrs Cryer later commented
““At the time I was dealing with this, 2002-04, political correctness was playing a big part. The Guardian at that time hardly mentioned these things… because it was so politically correct.”
Apart from political correctness Labour’s omerta was also the result of sordid bloc vote grubbing. a process facilitated by Prescott’s on demand wide open to fraud postal vote system
The net result of pc plus vote grubbing was a foul pestilential corruption which saw a blind eye being turned to an epidemic of group/gang CSE trafficking and pimping which “has polluted the whole body of the Labour Party.”
So clearly Labour MPs, the Party leadership, councillors and party members(especially in the grooming heartlands of W Yorks, E Lancs and S Yorks) were and are guilty of complicity and cover up to a greater or lesser extent..
“What are you trying to say? That he is part of the cover-up? Just don’t try and smear the party with the dirt.”
I thought I’d made my view of Watson clear
“Hey Presto, we get this smokescreen put up by the Paedo-Finder General Watson.”
The Labour Party is covered in excrement, for this is a systemic corruption.of the most foul and heinous kind.
I share your contempt for the Tory Party, but what you say here is a wholly unconvincing and absurd piece of whataboutery
“In an effort to keep the white British middle-class vote, the Conservative Party have simply swept the whole thing under the carpet.”
It is quite risible to pretend that Savile commanded a white British middle-class bloc vote.
Settle’s reputation has been Google scrubbed. It’s what’s left out that counts.
Very good article
And it’s about time Watson’s motives were called into question.
The explosion of publicity around alleged celeb and historic VIP abuse came some months after the conclusion of the 3rd Rochdale gang/group grooming trial.
After that the lid could no longer be kept on what one might call the Rotherham model of group/gang grooming, mass rape, sexual torture, trafficking, pimping and prostituting.
Incidentally there are 3 major trials upcoming shortly in respect to alleged offences committed in Keighley/Bradford, Halifax, Newcastle which collectively involve about 60 accused.
As I have previously pointed on here there is a very clear blind eye to grooming/votes nexus as far as the Labour Party is concerned, to which must be added politically correct ideology.
There is a major issue of gang grooming in the West Midlands, Watson’s home turf. This has been suppressed for many years by WMP and local councils.
Watson has had absolutely nothing to say about this, and in the evidence given by Settle(in response to a question by James Berry MP) it emerged that none of the complaints put forward by Watson related to his own constituency
For those who don’t know Watson’s constituency is in Sandwell
“A report to Sandwell Safeguarding Children Board (SSCB) last year drew on an official West Midlands Police ‘profile’ – an in-depth intelligence-based report on Child Sexual Exploitation which revealed how the Asian gangs were targeting white girls with on-street grooming.”
But as far as I can see Watson has never offered a single word of comment on CSE which “bears significant similarities to Rotherham” according to a “heavily redacted” police report
Instead of which Watson has chosen to make various claims of high level abuse based upon allegations and individuals of highly uncertain provenance – Watson has publicly backed “Darren” for instance.
To understand the motives and context here one has to appreciate that the Labour Party effectively pimped little girls for votes in the North and Midlands.
Obviously they don’t want this to be realised, it is so utterly appalling, sick and corrupt. It could and should make an end of their Party; the NOWT was liquidated for far, far less heinous matters.
Hey Presto, we get this smokescreen put up by the Paedo-Finder General Watson. It’s also worth contemplating Danczuk’s single minded pursuit of a dead political opponent Smith, and how much less attention he has devoted to
“Many of the offenders, many of whom are known to GMP, are still today walking the streets of Rochdale, still free men and respectable members of the community, having never been arrested or charged with these serious offences.
– MARGARET OLIVER, FORMER GMP DETECTIVE CONSTABLE”
Well Danczuk’s got his priorities, and Porky’s got his priorities – and they stink.
It’s probably also worth looking at the role and motivations of Keir Starmer, who was rewarded by the Labour Party with a safe seat at first time of standing
Maybe Fry had a point here
” He is said to have singled out Keir Starmer, the former director of public prosecutions who was also present, for criticism, and apparently announced that the law should be toughened up to deter people from inventing claims about sex abuse. “It was all a bit awkward,” said a guest. “There was a smattering of applause, but mostly there was this deadly silence. And Ed looked as if he had swallowed a wasp.””
If Starmer was still DPP Telegraph journalists would no doubt have been arrested and charged by now in connection with the alleged leaking of “victim” identity or identities
Very well stated Parsonage. I agree with every word of that.
The lack of attention to the wellbeing of working class girls (and sometimes boys) in these conurbations cannot be made into a party political issue. The situation will only get worse as funding is taken out of policing and community support. You have to make a choice. You either support communities or you have ‘austerity’ and cuts. This has been an ideologically driven issue since the late seventies. Both parties have danced to this tune. A healthy country requires a focus on general wellbeing. The post-war consensus was broken by Thatcher. She was wrong. Our values are not those of the market. The market couldn’t care less about the individual.
It looks to me very much now that we are going backwards to a situation where we have no rights outside of those given to us to serve the needs of the market. The very notion of human rights, as defined by the UN in more visionary times, is under attack from all sides.
How well do you think young poor girls do in China and India? How do single mums cope in the slums of Delhi or Shanghai? There is no welfare or support. Just give that some thought. There are only voluntary agencies. I have lived in Delhi. I know what happens. What a brilliantly developing economy they have. What an enormous affluent middle class who consume like billy-goats. There are hundreds of thousands of young lives tied up in the sex-industry. Was that a choice those children made? Of course it wasnt. Go and see what happens in the truck stops on the highway entry points to the major cities, or in the alleyways around the stations. Or indeed on the platforms themselves in places like Sealdah station in Kolkatta. Where are the police? Looking after the property and interests of the vigorous middle class of course and grabbing a few tasty samples for themselves as they go by. Why do you think that ruling party in Delhi is an unstable alliance of anti-corruption activists under constant threat from within and without.
In my vision, we had a modicum of hope here in the UK, it was developed by people like my grandmother who educated herself and fought back against the abuses she suffered ‘in service’ in a place not unlike Downton Abbey. It was fought for by my father who’se ship was sunk three times and who was supporting the troops landing in Normandy.
It looks now like the UK has been sold off cheaply and the country is in decline. How can it be that European state railways and bus companies are profiting by running our privatised transport? Now it’s schools for profits. Next it will be hospitals. We will end up with an increasingly desperate workforce who will have to be prepared to do anything to keep a roof over their heads. There is just no vision anymore of what our lives are meant to be. Like all the ‘developing’ countries that we are meeting on their way up as we are on our way down, those at the bottom are simply left to fend for themselves, minus tax credits, minus policing, minus a proper education, minus even bloody street lights at night. And how much are we ready to pay for Trident?
Grooming and abuse of children in major cities is a failure of vision. It’s a failure to offer dignity. It’s a failure of proper values. It’s a failure of human priorities. If things continue down the present road, we will get to see how well things go when there are only voluntary agencies in our cities and indeed in our police force.
There is no value in a party political argument about grooming or child abuse. Protecting children is an absolute priority for all people of goodwill, no matter where their views are on the political spectrum. Don’t dissipate that goodwill in a twisted re-write of history. Don’t lecture me about the Labour Party. Don’t dare tell me that the majority of Labour members are not decent people of goodwill, who have the same commitment to justice and freedom as those in the Conservative Party or the Liberal Democrats. I am not a politician. I have never been an elected representative. I am not a party member. I am a working-class lecturer in higher education and I work very hard. I will work with you on exposing and eradicating harm to children no matter what your class or political persuasion and I know many of my friends and colleagues would too.
“There is no value in a party political argument about grooming or child abuse. Protecting children is an absolute priority for all people of goodwill, no matter where their views are on the political spectrum. Don’t dissipate that goodwill in a twisted re-write of history. Don’t lecture me about the Labour Party.”
Why don’t you address what I have posted directly, both above and specifically as regards the very clear Labour Party blind eye to grooming/votes nexus on the Rev Vickery House thread on October 30th at 11.41am?
It’s just a fact that the only Labour politico who has ever spoken in a timely manner about these atrocities was Ann Cryer back in 2004. There has been a deafening silence characterised by MacShane as follows
“I too feel ashamed that I too, like so many MPs, preferred to keep silent on some of the dirty secrets about the bad practices in the Kashmiri Muslim community. The suffocating blanket of political omerta was thrown over a grave scandal. Many communities of incomers provide vast reservoirs of votes which MPs ignore at their peril”
How do you explain Watson’s own “omerta” here in very stark contrast to his high profile pursuit of alleged VIP paedophiles?
Denis MacShane is a convicted fraudster who served time in prison. I honestly don’t think his reflections in his ‘Prison Diaries’ take us anywhere. It’s not a surprise to me that political parties contain a percentage of sly, over-ambitious and sometimes crooked operators. That doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to caste blame on the party as a whole, which is made up of tens of thousands of decent law-abiding people and always has been. No decent person standing for office would think like you suggest for a single moment. Again, it’s no surprise to most people that some politicians are crooks. It’s also not a surprise to me that they make mistakes and cover things up.
It’s just too easy to play that game. What was the result of the high-level inquiry into the dealings of Saville with the top echelons of the Conservative Party? What lessons were learned to prevent such an egregious failure in the future? Oh, hang on, there was no enquiry. In an effort to keep the white British middle-class vote, the Conservative Party have simply swept the whole thing under the carpet.
These are short quotes form the International Business Times.
“In 1980, Savile was appointed by Thatcher to oversee the funding and rebuilding of Stoke Mandeville’s National Spinal Injuries Centre (NCIS) despite no previous experience of managing a project of this kind.
In 1981, Savile visited Thatcher to show her the architect’s drawings for the NSIC and is said to have asked the government for a cash donation as a “goodwill” gesture. Thatcher asked whether an amount of £1m would be sufficient”.
“An independent report reveals how Savile abused 63 patients at the Buckinghamshire hospital, including one girl aged as young as eight who he raped up to 10 times and an 11-year-old cancer sufferer”.
If Watson deserves criticism, go ahead and hold him to account. That’s not a problem to me. What are you trying to say? That he is part of the cover-up? Just don’t try and smear the party with the dirt. There are bucket-fulls of shit that could be thrown in the other direction. What are you going to say, that Saville was just one rotten apple? One rotten apple that lunched with the PM regularly?
I will say it again. Decent people in all political parties want all hurt to children stopped and they want anyone who hurt children in the past to be put before a jury of their peers. If there is proof that individuals deliberately withheld information to protect themselves, their privileges, their party or their pocket, then that evidence must be given to the police. And they should be similarly charged. There is no point, though, in an endless spiral of anecdote, conspiracy theory and conjecture. I accept, with sadness, that there may be some who are driven into this miasm by their own hurt. On the other hand, clearly, there are some who enjoy and embrace this as an opportunity and indeed have become minor-celebrities. David Icke comes to mind, for one.
john mann and mr dickens’s granddaughter were on look north today ,he said the matter of the papers he has read and handed to the police investigation seemed relevant,she said the family always believed mr dickens had important data which was suppressed and the matter need clearing up.
mr mann said that the matter will be raised in parliament tomorrow (weds 4 nov) so as the hasc is discussing policing nothing obviously relevant i recon pmq’s and/or the opposition day debate (policing) just after might be interesting.
Just looked at John Mann’s Twitter page and he says;
“The Dickens dossier ( no 2) came from a battle within the Monday Club. I have agreed with the police not to identify 19 live people named”. John Mann also mentions that he will be seeking a meeting with Norman Tebbitt who he says; ” banned the Young Monday Club around 1985/6.”
The Monday Club had various study groups (later renamed policy committees) including:
Immigration and Repatriation: notable chairmen being George Kennedy Young CB, MBE; Harvey Proctor MP; The Honourable Jonathan Guinness; (John Bercow, now an MP and Speaker of the House of Commons, was committee secretary 1981-82);
in other news both john mann and geofrey dickens’s grandaughter were on look north this teatime.mr mann mentioned the papers he has now handed to the relevant police and that the matter was being raised in the house tomorrow.
the granddaughter confirmed the family think there are a lot of important things in mr dickens ‘s papers and that he was probably correct in what he said and these matters need clearing up.
there was mention that the matter would be raised in the house tomorrow (weds) but no details of how or in what context so i guess either pmq’s or an hasc meeting or introduced into a debate on the floor which might be might be interesting.if nowt shows up on the telly i will keep an eye on hansard .
A recent Daily Mail story, recounting the horrific apparent abandonment of a family of orphans by the radical leftist council of their day, perhaps provides a hint about the kinds of problematic historic “care” that some folks would prefer to be lost under the smokescreen of VIP pedo-rapist-murderer ring fantasies. Isn’t that right, CF?
Some people don’t want anyone to be reminded of how terribly misguided the Marxist left could be on the subject of children & sexuality;
I have a lot more to say about this, but I’m content to wait for the VIP pedo child killers ring thing to play out first.
Excellent article Justin – a helpful reminder of the distinction between
a) the ideologically-driven ‘progressives’ of the 60s and 70s that genuinely thought they were acting in the children’s and wider society’s best interests, and
b) the predatory paedophiles that utilised such ideology to pursue their own sexual interests.
I do note that the article focuses its criticism on ‘the Left’ with all its ‘Marxist ideology’. In the interests of balance, therefore, I would offer the thought that the politically left-leaning paedophiles of that era were more likely to find themselves in category (a), while the equally-active politically right-leaning paedophiles were more likely to be in category (b).
Child sexual abuse is not a political issue. It serves no positive purpose to make it one.
Justin Sanity – “I have a lot more to say about this, but I’m content to wait for the VIP pedo ‘child killers ring thing’ to play out first.”
I’m glad you can be so glib about child murders, I hope you will apologise, when the, child killers ring thing’ is over.
How many would you call a ring Justin, 3 ? 4 ? Even 1 would made it well worth all the effort?
However much you try Justin, the spotlight is not going to be taken off the establishment, who you seem so determined to defend. Of course the Labour Councils failed many children and their role has to be held to account. Those in every Institution need to be held to account and that also means the establishment. Your posts often just smack of party political posturing, to deflect attention away from those in the establishment, ‘move along, nothing to see here’. As Andy so rightly says, “Child sexual abuse is not a political issue. It serves no positive purpose to make it one.”
I knew who Nick was and had seen the photo used by the Mail before. So had many others. I’ve wondered if Exaro set Nick up on twitter like Darren says they did with him. If so, they bear responsibility for him posting enough to identify himself. But he’s not a child, he’s an adult and imo he knew exactly what he was doing.
I guess I’m confused by this.
Is the suggestion that ‘Nick’ on his Twitter account was at one point using his real name (IIRC the first name was a relatively common one, the surname, less so)?
Just want to make sure I understand the points you are making.
1) Ignoring the fact that the police were already looking into the issue of should LB be interviewed – it seems I am to believe that upon reading about TW’s letter went into full panic mode and decided 24 hours later to interview LB. Because everyone knows once the police hear that an MP isn’t happy – all bedlam breaks out at police HQ.
2). With absolutely no evidence to back it up you then telll me Settle and co had been doing a splendid job. The type of jon the british public would be proud of. Jolly good.
3). You then say Settle could not have leaked Darren’s information. But Darren is not the subject of the leak it is Nick. . Given the DM, Settle’s buddies alll but showed Nick’s identity in their paper – one might just think that Settle gave them that information.
4). Aah. but you say Nick could easily be identified. He left enough clues for anyone to figure out who is was? Maybe that is true – but it is also true that Settle could have leaked the information. The fact that anyone coiuld have – according to you – identify Nick – and the fact that Settle could have also leaked the information are not mutually exclusive.
Otherwise an excellent piece of reporting
DCI PAUL SETTLE is on the PAYROLL of the DAILY MAIL.And we wonder where the sick Daily Fail get their info from???Pedo-apologist Aaronovitch was consultant on that pre-Savile report Panorama bull,that started this Establishment backlash,and their Daniel Foggo is mates with ukip dodgy troll pedo apologist Greg Lance Watkins.Settles good mates with both Gojam and dodgy cycling buddy Wright from the daily fail.As for Gojam……his flimsy defence of certain “characters” and his inferences have all have been noted by many of late.His unpleasant attacks aimed at both Esther Baker and Exaro have not gone unnoticed either.Hmmm…
Pathetic and ill-informed.
‘Saying that you are a ‘huge supporter’ of the ‘principle’ of anonymity for complainants of sexual abuse. Then saying those complainants must bear ‘some responsibility’ for maintaining it and not blame others because they’ve effectively identified themselves on social media, and elsewhere, is like saying that, although rape is’ illegal’, women who wear mini skirts must bear some responsibility’?
It is also a ‘moral judgement’, but we are not talking about ‘morals’, we are talking about ‘the law’. We must also remember we are dealing with vulnerable individuals. Most cases of this sort are thrown out, because these individuals have been in trouble due to the abuse they have suffered as children. They will often have been in prison,alcoholics , drug users etc.
Defence lawyers find it easy to destroy the credibility of these witnesses, and thus get their clients off because of this. However if any sort of justice is to be served, the law should, at least before these cases get to court, try to protect the alleged victims as much as possible.
The investigations that the police have been trying to carry out, would, I believe, foil even Sherlock Holmes, and I can only repeat the words of Detective Hogan-Howe, “We are determined to get to the bottom of this”.
They should also protect the accused, by not releasing details of the charges against them to the press. As for D.C.I Paul Settle, I have ‘no comment’.
“Michael – Child Abuse Survivor Speaks” 9 Nov. 2012
“Michael’s” account in this clip is highly believable. Which doesn’t mean it is necessarily true, but it does reflect common patterns of behaviour by dozens of convicted abusers, and the documented experiences of hundreds of victimized children – children abused not only by care home workers but also by clergy, by upper-class boarding school teachers, by boy scout leaders and even by sports coaches – not only in the UK but all over the english speaking world.
What makes it particularly believable, is the open admission that “Michael” and other children in such scenarios were successfully seduced into compliance by the lure of drink, drugs, sight-seeing tours, fairgrounds, games rooms, junk foods, being given “whatever they wanted” during the weekends out. It is the honesty of the statement that he “wouldn’t have missed his place on the bus”, the admission that abused children often make evaluations balancing the things they are not enjoying against the things that they “wouldn’t miss for the life of them” when offered – which doesn’t make them in any way responsible for the abuse they experienced, of course.
Michael’s account and similar accounts from hundreds of other victimized persons contrasts starkly with the “child sex slave” scenario, where there is no suggestion of the victims being seduced and no pleasures offered to them, where there is only unremitting brutality, pain, suffering and extreme violence. The sex slave scenario where compliance is extorted through pornography blackmail, through threat of injury or death, where children witness others whom they consider to be friends being tortured or even murdered and still never divulge anything to anyone.
Very true Justin. I’m extremely suspicious of all claims involving organised sexual sadism. It isn’t how paedophiles generally work and it’s always VIPs who are said to be the sadists.
The sexual sadism very much features in the reports from Belgium, including deaths and disappearances. I think it’s important to look at what happened there as a parallel to the situation in the UK.
I am a csa victim of an old man who gave me money and sweets when I was about 8 (The grandfather of a childhood friend) and also of someone who I now realise was a very dangerous person, who after abusing me started gripping his hands around my throat. I was about 9. We were in an open field and someone came along allowing me to run away. I attended court with my father and this person was sent to prison. At the time, I could not understand why he was putting his hands around my throat. I now realise he was considering killing me.
in 2 weeks time,a minister is to be outed and is expected to resign.If it doesn’t happen,you KNOW theres a HUGE Establishment cover-up still in operation.