Proctor In Perspective

Capture

Without perspective how do we know if something is big or small, near or far away ?

To say Harvey Proctor divides people doesn’t begin to do the job. As a member of the Monday Club in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, he espoused views fashionable only on the right of the Conservative Party (which he insists were prescient, the migration horse having bolted long ago, he says)

As a dutiful Essex MP, first in Basildon from 1979-83 and then Billericay from 1983-87, he helped to provide the ballast on Mrs Thatcher’s back benches. But the red-top press got wind of his sexual preferences and he decided not to run again in the 1987 election.

It was bad enough that he was (pass the smelling salts) a homosexual, which no MP at the time dared admit. More seriously, he had been breaking the law by paying for “the company”, as he puts it, of rent boys, who were not above telling their story to, particularly, the left-of-centre popular papers.

Proctor thus became something of a pantomime baddie in parts of the media.

The Independent

Advertisements

20 Comments

Filed under Abuse, News, Politics

20 responses to “Proctor In Perspective

  1. I’m minded of the time some newspaper reprinted an interview with some old guy from some French Provincial Town, from memory the then mayor, a bit of colourful figure in his time and yet, seemingly locally at least,, quite well respected. They looked every inch the charming “old duffer” and came across on the interview as personable and jovial character. A slight irascibility that often goes with age, was there, under the surface however, to all intents and purposes they appeared the typical elder French Provincial gentleman.

    Only thing was, under all the effortless Gallic charm was a person who, during world war 2, was actively engaged in the exposure and round up of Jews in another department of France, a man who sent hundreds if not thousands knowingly to their deaths. in short his life, post the war, was a lie , one long web of conceit hidden directly in public view. His bluffness exposed as not “charm” rather, the cold calculated actions of man with seemingly, little or no shame. I believe he also denied flat out, in the beginning, even being the person in question and trying to make out it was a case of “mistaken identity”.

    I’d be far more likely to believe Mr Proctor’s protestations had he come totally clean about his life back then and instead of trying to dry clean his past, actually given us all the truth about his activities and then, after he had been totally frank about his predilections, denied he ever had contact knowingly, with under age men. As it stands. from my personal perspective the old “I was gay at a time being gay was frowned upon” seems a tad like a convenient excuse rather than, a genuine defence. Furthermore, it strikes me as somewhat disingenuous towards those who truly suffered under the vagaries of our then backward social memes, to jump on that particular bandwagon.

    • Sabre

      If you embrace the concept of memes, open question imho, then taking the analogy with genes, they are only ‘backward’ or ‘positive’ depending on whether they ‘survive’ or not.

      If our social memes were backwards, then Proctor would have been one of the sufferers.
      Not a defence, or otherwise for that matter, of Proctor but merely a quest for consistency.

  2. dpack

    harmless or wrongun ?i dont know.
    establishing which it is should be done properly, the sooner the truth is established the better for everyone .(if he is harmless ,as he states he is ,he should join in that process as best he can

    as he is “not a suspect “i recon an open letter is legal.

    hello harvey, can you help me establish truth ?
    i didnt like you or your political chums back in your “day”and i still dont but establishing the truth is far more important than reinforcing my prejudices or adding to various distractions from a variety of very serious matters.
    your statements indicate you feel to be a victim in this situation and if that is the case tell it like it is .
    i hope you can engage constructively with a member of the public ,in public,as well as working within the machinery of the law .
    citizens should be prepared to listen to well known folk who find themselves under scrutiny ,collectively we can deal with every situation for what it is.

  3. Tony

    Stardog23 – you say “underage” but according to Wikipedia they were “aged between 17 and 21.” So they weren’t under the heterosexual age of consent but were under the grossly unfair homosexual legal age. Omitting details of the age is a familiar tactic that even The Guardian stoops to on occasion, referring to “boys” of unspecified age, to create a more “juicy” story.

    By 1986 there was a sense that an age of 21 was extremely discriminatory (maybe some always thought it was?). It was ludicrous to be, for example, 20 years old, be in your third year at university, but still be illegal as far as gay sex was concerned.

    Yes it was unsavoury to be spanking 17 year old male prostitutes. But, come on, consider the atmosphere of attack at the time, including the vile tabloid newspapers, chief constables and the AIDS hysteria… Who on earth would want to “come clean” as you put it and volunteer any information about their gay private life in 1986?

    Nor do I think it’s fair to compare this to someone who may have sent “hundreds if not thousands” of Jews to their deaths. Please get a sense of proportion!

    • Sabre

      It was contrary to the law to indulge in homosexual activity with males under 21 at the time. There are some that believe it is grossly unfair to criminalise sexual behaviour amongst close family members, under 16s etc. Why obey the law? Do as you will in the hope and expectation that you will be exonerated ex post facto ?

      • TonyM

        When I was 21 I met a man who was 20 and we were together almost 9 years. Yes I broke the law when we met. I decided the law was grossly unfair and made up my own mind.

        Imagine if you had lived part of your adult life before 1967 and a sexual relationship with a male of any age was illegal. Once you’d decided that wasn’t just and you’d had one sexual experience you were then already a criminal and it was then for you to make a moral judgment on what a suitable age of consent for gay males was.

      • Sabre

        @TonyM,
        I can see your point, I am more than aware of my own prejudices and preconceptions. I do realise that as a heterosexual such a law is easily obeyed, would I have broken the law if it had been illegal to engage in a sexual relationship with an adult female 20 years old? The answer of course is Yes.
        The problem is of course that we all have our own opinions of right and wrong, justice and injustice.
        You broke the law albeit unjust, I would have broken the hypothetical law I alluded to.
        Assuming that we are both basically honourable decent men we can justify your action and my hypothetical action.
        Surely some if not all people that seek sexual contact with children consider themselves to be honourable decent enlightened and oppressed whether we agree or not.
        Where do we draw the line?

      • TonyM

        Very true.

    • Sabre

      It is illegal today to pay anyone under 18 for sexual services.

  4. Anon

    Who pays his Rent?

  5. Gary

    Its difficult to know what the offenders of yesteryear were actually guilty of. When homosexuality was a crime any contact of a sexual nature between adult males would have resulted in conviction and disgrace. Even when the law was changed we had disparity in the age of consent, a male aged 16-21 was of limits for a man, but not a woman. Now we have parity but perhaps not complete acceptance.

    My point is, many ordinary gay men found themselves with convictions whilst many sex offenders his behind the ordinary men and essentially portrayed themselves as having a conviction due to consensual adult sex. The conviction may have been the same one, ‘gross indecency’

    Nowadays the paedophile can no longer hide behind the gay persona as gay men are accepted and out, in society..

    • dpack

      that might explain the changing tactics and targets of blackmail and reward by those who “pull the strings” over the years.

      • Sabre

        Precisely, in the days when adultery was absolutely scandalous it was easy to obtain leverage over an individual on the basis of behaviour that is now if not de rigeur at least lacking stigma.
        Homosexuality used to present all manner of blackmail opportunities, now it is almost compulsory !
        If PIE had prevailed in the 70s and 80s, the cultural Marxists tried their best to help them, we would now be concerned only with the rape and murder of kids given that the depraved establishment predators would by now have been normalised as far as ‘consensual sex’ with kids is concerned.

        The only 100 percent effective way of preventing crime after all is to abolish crime.

  6. change ‘rent boy’ to ‘call girl’…it helps to put things in perspective. I think, if taken in the light that we’re talking about 17-21 yr old people (correct me if I’m wrong) then what is this old duffer guilty of? He was probably blackmailed for years over this, that is the major issue that should be considered. Just how many have been blackmailed, is the big question we should be getting answered by now.

    The press, and others have used ‘rent boys’ as info-givers for years, gathering dirt on VIP’s. They promise an ‘exposé’ then say, ‘nah, we can’t run it’…having harvested all the data (where’s all that data go…?).
    If the press, etc want to raise opinion about male prostitutes, they should make just as much comment about the depredations that occurred in the lives of so-called ‘rent boys’, to make them think that prostitution is even an option – and all should be careful about alienating probably the biggest source of info there is on other cases of exploitation involving young kids.
    It’s all about perspective.

  7. I think we need to think carefully about prostitution, if the person is male or female aged 16-99 we could put the case that they can do what they want and sell their bodies and the purchaser receives their pleasure and the escort receives money in return and it’s no-one else’s business.
    Unfortunately we are dealing with people and not goods, firstly few people become escorts because they like to be in the profession, they are in it because they are desperate for money or they have falling into the hands of pimps and other low life or they have a drug addiction, or some other addiction. Usually, if they do not have an addiction when starting escorting they usually end up with an addiction. Prostitution is a symptom of a sick society.
    The Internet seems to have a growth in this business and here is a report from a South African paper, our papers focus on individuals in the media
    http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/uk-a-hub-for-european-child-prostitution-1.78006#.VU3r6JVFBjo
    I think we need to seriously address this issue rather than trivialise it, I just hope Ms May address the overhaul issue and websites dealing with abuse also address the modern slave traffic that can now be found in this country.

    • Sabre

      Unless and until people trafficking and drug trafficking are severely curtailed prostitution including child prostitution will continue to be rife.
      The globalist liberalistas see mass immigration including the blind eye to illegal immigration and trafficking as a positive, open borders and a race to the bottom in pay and conditions for workers is great for the economy if not the workers fighting like rats in a sack for the last crust.
      States make a huge noise about drugs although they get billions going through the banking system and the economy generally because of them, drugs being ‘illegal’ make for ideal funding mechanisms for some of the ‘below the radar’ State schemes the Iran/Contra scandal being the most widely known.
      Drugs also help to keep large sections of the great unwashed busy and docile and off of the streets in the political sense.

      Prostitution, child prostitution and drugs evoke millions of cubic metres of hot air, which mustn’t be confused with genuine concern, from politicos.

  8. dpack

    follow the money is good pals with follow the guns