Elm Guest House And Why The Truth Matters !

When I first started looking into historical child sexual abuse I rather naively thought that no one would possibly lie about a subject that was so serious. I was wrong and this post reveals how I came to realise that. It will also help readers to understand why The Needle has sought to navigate a course between those that believe and report everything and anything and those that believe nothing and report that no allegation is true. What I and the Needleteam have come to realise is that the greatest threats to the truth, which is certainly in the public interest to understand, are the false witnesses who appear to corroborate existing allegations of the testimony of genuine survivors. These false witnesses are like a poison which contaminates the truth. After a while the truth and the lie become so associated that once the lie is unearthed, as invariably it always is, the truth is dismissed along with it and with the truth goes any hope the genuine survivor has of justice and any chance the public have of understanding the gravity of the complex child sexual abuse issue in the UK.

What I have come to realise is that it is extremely easy to cover-up child sexual abuse but you don’t do it by testing the evidence, you do it by providing false corroborative evidence and exaggeration. You build it up then knock it down and the truth gets buried in the rubble of lies. The process of embellishing the truth with lies and exaggeration has been a cooperative effort between some elements of the Alternative Media (AM) who will often publish any unsubstantiated rumour believing that there is little consequence and some elements of the Mainstream Media (MSM) who have spotted a rich vein of stories, stories that sell newspapers. Often the relationship between the established media and the ‘new’ media is symbiotic with false stories in the MSM becoming embedded as ‘truth’ in the AM and with MSM outlets, with fewer professional journalists because of increasing financial pressures due to the emergence of online media, searching for new angles in the AM thus turning rumour into ‘truth’. It is almost an alchemical process like turning lead into gold but when the tallyman comes for payment you’ll find that the result is worthless and don’t then be too surprised if the tallyman is wary even when you offer good coin.

Anyway, those are general points, I want to write now about a specific one to help illustrate it.

In December 2012 a raft of documents suddenly appeared online posted by Mary Moss, formally of NAYPIC, which appeared to be related to the Elm Guest House which was the subject of what was then a new police investigation, Operation Fernbridge. The significance of the documents only appeared to increase when officers from Operation Fernbridge raided Mary Moss’s home and seized the documents. I had already spent a few months looking into allegations of historic child sexual abuse across the UK and, like a great many people online, I began to try to decipher and understand the documents in the public domain but, unlike most others, I very quickly found myself in a privileged position with access to many of those connected in some way to those documents. I learned from Chris Fay, a former NAYPIC advisor, that the documents were written by him circa 1990 and that they were private notes and speculations that were never intended to have been put in the public domain but as they had been put into the public domain Chris Fay was eager to help us understand them. It may interest readers to know that one of the first things that Chris Fay wanted to clarify was that he had found no evidence that a pop star mentioned in the documents had sexually abused children. Chris Fay was very generous with his time and not adverse to having long held beliefs tested and although I have come to the conclusion that the documents are at best very misleading, at worst mostly very wrong, I remain extremely grateful for the time he gave us.

Another source I talked to in the early part of 2013 was a man by the name of Clive Godden who was described in the documents as a “private investigator”. Mr Godden’s input primarily regarded the allegation that child sexual abuse at Elm Guest House was connected to a ‘child pornography’ racket run by London mobsters. At the very centre of this set up was a man called David Hamilton Grant. David Hamilton Grant was a small time film maker during the 1970s which included low budget pornography. Initially, we believed him to be dead but when we discovered that news of his death was slightly premature and he was living in Southern Europe we became intrigued to say the least. It all seemed to fit, it all seemed so plausible but we were to learn that allegations connecting David Hamilton Grant to Elm Guest House were a determined fabrication.

Mr Godden had talked to Operation Fernbridge, he maintained that he had spoken to Carole Kasir, had seen compromising photographs in her possession  of VIPs, including Leon Brittan, with young boys, and that he, Clive Godden, had in his possession Carole Kasir’s notebook, which he described as his “insurance policy”. Then one day he told me that he had evidence of a police raid during the late 1980s on a boat house used by David Hamilton Grant as storage in which the police at the time had seized ‘child pornography’ including some produced at Elm Guest House. He even gave me the date, the names of the police officers involved and the search warrant reference number. I explained to Clive Godden that if true I could not publish anything without first having talked to Operation Fernbridge. After all, if physical evidence of child sexual abuse at Elm Guest House implicating VIPs existed somewhere in a police warehouse then it was extremely important that they had the opportunity of retrieving it. Clive Godden eagerly agreed and I called Operation Fernbridge and gave them the details and they promised to get back to me. When they did a few days later they explained that they were already aware of the information and seemed remarkably unperturbed by the prospect of the details being published.

Ah! What a great story it would have been. Imagine, the police had seized evidence of child sexual abuse involving VIPs and done nothing !!

There was just one problem with it. It was complete crap.

If it had not been for the advice of Exaro’s Mark Conrad who was investigating the very same issues at the time, and who cautioned that I should be careful and dig further, I might have published then and I’m very grateful to Mark for that.

Clive Godden had promised to send me a copy of the search warrant and other documents by post and impatiently I waited for them to fall through my letterbox and then I could write my big story. When several days later a thick A4 manilla envelope arrived I sat down and started to go through the documentation. Slowly it began to dawn on me that something was very wrong. I found the copy of the search warrant and found to my disbelief that Mr Godden had filled out half of it himself and his account of how he became interested in David Hamilton Grant which he had recounted on the phone on several occasions looked even flakier now that it was written in black and white before me. Yet still the notion that anyone would lie about an issue as important as child sexual abuse was so alien to me that I refused to immediately accept it. I first decided that Clive Godden had only slightly embellished his account but slowly any veneer of plausibility to Mr Godden’s story fell away.

The boat house had been used by David Hamilton Grant as storage and the police had indeed raided it but far from seizing ‘child pornography’ produced at Elm Guest House involving VIPs, the police instead seized a cache of counterfeit VHS videos. Nothing but a van load of ‘knock off’ pirated tapes of Convoy, ET, or something similar.  No wonder Operation Fernbridge were so laid back. Oh, what a fool I’d been !

Mr Godden’s tale started to unravel and the truth began to emerge. The inconvenient fact the Clive Godden’s wife had run off with David Hamilton Grant, which had always left me uncomfortable, now became a motive for a remarkable campaign of vindictiveness which has stretched back three decades. Somehow, Mr Godden was able get David Hamilton Grant deported from Cyprus and a local newspaper reported the departure of this ‘evil child pornographer’. He fled to Turkey pursued by Mr Godden who, using the evidence from the Cypriot newspaper story, was able to get a Turkish newspaper to run something similar and then, astonishingly, by producing both the Cypriot and Turkish newspaper stories and other evidence he had cobbled together he managed to get stories printed in the UK including even The Sun. Creating  in the process a false canon of media stories which appeared to corroborate his tale.


At a stroke I had to re-evaluate everything in the documents but more importantly I had learned a crucial lesson and luckily for myself it was one I learnt at a very early stage of my investigations and that is that people lie and their reasons for doing so aren’t always immediately apparent. By no means does everyone lie but a minority do and my starting point that nobody would lie where child sexual abuse was concerned was both naive and deeply flawed.

Now, here is my main point. There are many untrue elaborations and false witness testimonies in the Alternative Media and in the Mainstream Media regarding Elm Guest House but regardless of all of them and after two years of critical investigation I would still maintain that there was child sexual abuse there, that VIPs were involved, and that, as evidenced by the recent IPCC investigation, there are serious questions to be answered regarding why the police did not adequately investigate at the time.

I don’t tell you the story of Clive Godden seeking to undermine the truth regarding Elm Guest House, I tell you it to demonstrate that the truth can and will withstand false evidence and this is not a point specific to Elm Guest House it is a more general one. The danger for the campaign to expose historical child sexual abuse does not lie in the exposure of untruths, it only becomes damaging when ‘campaigners’ continue to maintain that what can be demonstrated to be false is true because when this is done the truth is buried in the rubble of the lies.



Filed under Abuse, Fernbridge, News

57 responses to “Elm Guest House And Why The Truth Matters !

  1. Hilarious!
    Godden said: “She was also in film and photos taken from his house in Kayaloa in Turkish Cyprus. by the Turkish secret police who l was working for from June 1998 till 1990″…”I left loads of Photos of MPs for the police a Det/Sgt Keith Driver. They collected them in a very large van on the 18/2/88 which took them over three hours to load”… “I told the police from Fernbridge that l would bring all the original evidence l have on him when they arrest him on the Two Arrest Warrants out on him, you don’t believe me Mr John Sawyer then why don’t you ask the Chief of Police in Aegina Greece”…

    Godden claims to have worked for the Turkish SECRET POLICE for 3 years, says that he was an informant for Scotland Yard in the past, (Keith Driver), and that he plans to be an informant for The Met, (Fernbridge), in the future – and then calls Gojam a police informer! When con-artists spread disinformation on behalf of secret police-intelligence agencies, they call themselves “whistleblowers” – but if you expose a con-artist, a police mis-informant, they call you an informer. Too funny!

    As for allegations that David Hamilton Grant made child porn videos – please provide the titles of these alleged videos. They all have some kind of title, there has to be a way for distributors to list and catalog them and a way for customers to identify and request them, so even digital versions have to at least have a file name. What are some of the titles that Grant is responsible for? If his accusers can’t at least come up with titles, their allegations don’t amount to much more than hot air.

    • Bandini

      Hello, Justin Sanity!

      I understand that Gojam has previously taken on board your opinion on related matters, so perhaps you could have a word in his ear & persuade him to do the decent & honourable thing as requested here:


      He is having trouble backing-up the claim, you see, that any ‘Gojam’ made anything clear to me (ever). Perhaps you could remind him of his own prophetic words:

      “… that once the lie is unearthed, as invariably it always is…”

      It seems a bit rich to be accusing others of lying whilst coming up short in the truth department himself. And, let us not forget, ‘The Truth Matters!’

      • Bandini

        Someone could also take the Needleblog laundry-maid to task, as despite the undoubted hygienic boon of running Gojam’s smalls through the boil-wash program said process soon takes its toll on the fabric.

        In fact, so much shrinkage has taken place that he has become captive inside his own socks – he simply can’t get them off! And they are restricting the free-flow of blood – his fingers are turning blue!

        Ho ho ho!

        (Interest accruing – compound.)

      • Bandini

        It’s the day! It’s the hour!
        It’s time to get yer Friday Night Freak on, kids!

        Rather than go for yet another track from Gojam’s complete set of “Now That’s What I Call Really Rather Embarassing Dad Rock Anthems” (volumes 1 to infinity) I’ve selected a song that is actually worth listening to.

        The band? The mysteriously named “5th Dimension”.
        Oftentimes I have tried imagining what life might be like, living in that there fifth dimension of which they speak; a hellish world, perhaps, where faces melt away to reveal only a mask behind which another face lurks, where the basic tenets of civilised life to which we cling – honesty, decency & integrity – pale before the easy temptations of power, corruption & lies… A truly dreadful thought!

        But cheer up, eh? It’s Friday! And so – and especially for Gojam/’Gojam’ – I offer you this almighty classic: “Puppet Man”. Sock it to ’em!

        P.S. Meter’s running. It ain’t an Uber, either!

  2. Bandini

    Credit where credit is due… is sorely missing from this article, Gojam!

    You were given ample opportunity to explain all of this previously. In your response to Bishop Brightly above, you say that:

    “It seemed unnecessary before.”

    Really?!? Unnecessary? But the 12th of April 2015 seemed like a propitious moment?!? Ye Gods, if I’d have done what you had there would have been flowers & chocolates and a VERY public apology.

    [To anyone out of the loop I should point out that DHG/Godden was what reeled me into this madness. I have posted extensively on the matter & Gojam was well aware of this fact. At no point was any attempt to rein in the lunatic broadcasters of bullshit “information” despite the fact that the initial seeding of the fraudulent tale started HERE, on Needleblog, and the sowers were the NeedleTeam & associates.]

    It really does defy belief, Gojam. Did you never think to have a quiet word in the ear of those who had helped you propagate the fable when you were plainly aware of their continued libelling which started HERE? When they were making vile accusations against other commentators – myself, for example! – you didn’t have cause to mention to them that, you know, maybe they were putting their collective feet in it? They were wishing death upon others, for Christ’s sake. One of them has crawled onto the ‘People’s Tribunal’ steering-commitee whilst pushing this filth…

    No. Not good enough.

    The notion that Mark Conrad set you straight is pretty funny, though! It’s certainly not MY experience that Exaro have had the slightest interest in stamping out this particular forest-fire. They have actively recruited for their ‘Twitter Army’ the pushers of what you now state is “total crap” whilst denigrating those who pointed this out to them; I speak from personal experience here.

    By the way, the claim that DHG “faked his own death” is also utter nonsense. Then again, coming from those who thought he might be evading Customs by wrapping child pornography in pork-products – Muslims wouldn’t want to touch it! Ho ho ho! – or that he might have piloted a light-aircraft BACK to the country from whence he was, according only to Godden, expelled, and this in a mad deal with Asil Nadir, shows, I think, their general lack of intelligence. And all coupled with a disturbing nastiness, too. What a horrible bunch of half-wits (they would be, if it were true that they genuinely believed it all).

    • I don’t have to explain myself to you. If BB wants a more detailed answer he can call me.

      The story didn’t originate here as you well know. You see, when you exaggerate and seek to deceive like that on something that is very well known, you only undermine yourself.

      I actually did make it clear to you about 18 months ago.

      I’d have more sympathy for your wasted two years if you weren’t so chummy with trolls. So go back to troll-land and continue to bad mouth me there. You’re known by who you associate with and you associate with arseholes.

      • Bandini

        Exaggerate & seeking to decieve? Me?!? Oh, please. If I still had any intact ribs left after reading Godden’s claptrap above I’d be breaking it now laughing at these drum-hollow words!

        What is it that you claim to have made clear to me about 18 months ago? I have no recollection of this. Under the name of ‘Gojam’, was it? Or…

        Wasted two-years? Not by me, though! Those who are only now discovering what you inexplicably chose to hide beneath the Needleblog bushel for such a long, long time might be wondering who’s zooming who here!
        And to those I would say: “Do your own research, check the records & you’ll soon see who has a proven track-record of bullshitting/associating with bullshitters.”
        It sure as hell isn’t me.

      • Bandini

        Gojam, I have used your tardiness in replying to double-check my meticulously maintained (and backed-up!) notes to check whether or not you did, as you claim, actually make “it” clear to me about 18 months ago… but I came up empty-handed.

        My poor old bonce will be as hairless as an egg with all this puzzled scratching. Please point me in the direction of this unremembered event, and I shall then leave you to try & tighten the wheel-nuts on the Needleblog Charabanc. At the moment it’s not looking good for the upcoming MOT!

      • Bandini

        Well, I’m not sure even HOW you could help me find something which doesn’t & never did exist: no ‘Gojam’ made anything clear to me “around 18 months ago” (nor prior nor since!).

        People might wonder if you’re not, well, telling fibs, given your reluctance to back-up an easily provable assertion… so spit it out, eh? Don’t be a chicken!

      • Bandini

        Come on, Gojam, I don’t have all day!
        Oh hang on, that’s not right – I actually have exactly as long as it takes.

        And while we are waiting, how about a little music? Well, it is Friday night after all, eh?! I nominate “I’d Rather Go Blind” for your delectation. ‘Chicken Shack’ did a great version…

  3. barb

    when people disagree with you , you dont back things up just refuse to debate or argue online no offence but why dont you let people make their own minds up on the truth . this is how we learn truth from disinfo .its like a parent who says “because i said so “! i’d like to read all comments and make my own mind up please . these blogs are very valuable

  4. Mr Clive Godden

    Mr John Sawyer
    I have just seen another Lie on your blog. I wish you would get your facts right. Ahmet Sclcuk was not in Grants house. The police found Grant in Ahmet Sclcuk house which he was renting and that’s why he was sacked from being Under Secretary of State in the Turkish Government because he did not have Grant checked out by the Security and was involved with him
    You should ask your police friends are they involved with him.

  5. Mr Clive Godden

    Why don’t you omit you work for the police Mr John Sawyer

    • Because I don’t

      But you Mr Godden are a liar and you’ve been found out.

      You’ve had your fair say on this blog.

      That’s it. No more. I’m not entering into a public slanging match.


  6. Mr Clive Godden

    Well Mr John Sawyer it has been brought to my notice about this lying blog of yours

    Lie No,1 the photo you show saying it wa my ex-wife but it was his first wife a Margo Muller whom l interviewed in 1990 she appeared in lots of his porn movies. She was also in film and photos taken from his house in Kayaloa in Turkish Cyprus. by the Turkish secret police who l was working for from June 1998 till 1990.

    Lie No. 2 I did not get him removed from England. In fact he was deported from Turkish Cyprus on the 8/6/88 by the Rauf Genktash the President of Turkish Cyprus. Because l took over 1000 Photos, Betamax, VHS videos of Child Pornography taken by Grant in his house in Turkish Cyprus of Turkish men having sex with Children. they were taken from the boatyard They were sent back in the Diplomatic bag to Turkish Cyprus, to a Minster who was in the photos that l sent back. I did not know of this at the time but was later told by the President. Mr Jon Sawyer were you there when he was deport. No l don’t think so, because l was there when he was handcuffed to a Turkish S/S agent, and l was only five feet away from him.

    Lie No. 3 I left loads of Photos of MPs for the police a Det/Sgt Keith Driver. They collected them in a very large van on the 18/2/88 which took them over three hours to load. How do l know, because l was there the very next day. Mr John Sawyer were you there at the time, l don’t think so.

    Lie No 4 this one even my friend s know is not true l did not agree at any time for you to go Fernbridge it was only after they arrived at my house that l found out it was you who had told them about me, and that you worked for the police you toe rag. That’s why you print all this bull shit and the people who read it know what you are. Trojon summed you up well. You are a despicable little police informer
    Lie No. 5 Regarding me meeting Car Kazir and her book that she gave to me. They want the original because a copy is nothing without the Original which is in her hand writing. I told the police from Fernbridge that l would bring all the original evidence l have on him when they arrest him on the Two Arrest Warrants out on him, you don’t believe me Mr John Sawyer then why don’t you ask the Chief of Police in Aegina Greece, and the people of Aegina who all want him off the island. Better still lets both go to Aegina and meet your friend Grant, and the police and see who’s telling the truth, l have been there with a film crew, have you Mr John Sawyer, l think not, You want to go then pay the fare for both of us, and if l am lying then l will pay and that includes first class hotel. Are you on, put your money where your mouth is, or shut down this Crap blog.

    Now l will tell you why David Hamilton Grant did not sue me, because all that l have said or written about him is the truth, if l made l lie about him,l would be finished. I have asked him in over sixteen letters to sue me even his latest lawyer in Bedford who will not even answer my letters. I wonder why Mr Jon Sawyer. Do you know why?.

    There is also Lie No.6 I started divorcing Vanessa 1996 while l was living in Cyprus, l did not come into contact with Grant until 1988.Would you like to see all the paperwork on when l started investigating Grant.

  7. 70sgirl

    I’ve sensed some panic recently in the ranks of the most credulous, the most accusatory, the most heinously stupid. Good – it’s time everyone swallowed hard, took a deep breath, and asked some hard questions about those making sales of papers, and reputations, out of allegations which stink like rotting fish. And well they might stink, they’ve been hanging round for long enough.
    Why have no press stories examined the claims of Andrea Davison?, ‘ex MI5’ master fraudster, who now also reckons she was at Duncroft, parachuted into Iraq, framed for investigating Bryn Estyn, (add nonsense story as it suits). Why will the media not touch the flaky backgrounds of some of the ‘whistleblowers’? Is it because they have created an atmosphere where they are now afraid to question narratives and names which they have themselves created? All highly embarrassing.

  8. The lists are correct. I have found peole on there, with very unusual names, who I knew had been there. Not VIPs, Celebs, or MPs.

  9. I believe Gotham is right in what he has said here, although there may be other things about DHG that are not known yet.

    But the point is that not everything is true, but some of it is and why is it not being investigated. I come back again to the RAWRO directors, the company, the money they got from Spartacus, PIE and individuals to fund the activities both in EGH and Hull.

    Unwrap RAWRO and you get to the truth of who invested money in the twisted world of the Kasirs.

  10. dpack

    i dont feed trolls

    • dpack

      im not sure if this is relevant but i seem to recall a link between belgium and turkey at diplomatic immunity/political vip level in relation to csa accusations.
      a variety of organised crime groups trade with turkey(class a drugs are only part of that system).
      the nato military/spooky industry has had strong links to turkey for a long time .
      it is plausible that those factors have had common cause and coexistence on occasion .the turkish version of “gladio b”might well provide some examples of relevant links.

      re follow the money ,it is often a very useful tactic.
      re the “organised crime” aspect, the darker corners of spookery and the better organized type of criminal can often find each other useful.

      • dpack


        Click to access Sibel_Edmonds_Gladio_Mindmap.pdf

        this woman has done a lot of research on these matters ,she seems well informed.her youtube videos are quite interesting but the mind map is a quick reference to some names that might be relevant .


        this is a good overview of what is given the overall title of “gladio”,the referenced material is fairly extensive but by no means the whole truth and some of it is almost certainly inaccurate in significant details,however the general theme seems to be correct.
        see note 5 in the latter link

        this refers mostly to italy but if one extracts the strategy and applies it to other locations the SHAPE matches remarkably well.the italian version of henniker 8 made me think i was seeing double ;)

        there is a lot of data contained in the stuff above but a holistic view of context can contain the required details to establish answers to specific problems.

  11. Troyhand

    It amazes me the amount of power Clive Godden had over the fate of poor David Hamilton Grant [who was the representative of the Adult Publications Association for the Williams Report on Obscenity and Film Censorship].

    If I understand you correctly, Godden got Grant to leave England with false child pornography claims hanging over him from a simple video-nasties raid on Grant’s boat. [Why Grant didn’t sue Godden and the Observer for libel et al, I can’t imagine.]

    Then tourist Godden was able to get poor ex-pat DH Grant deported from Cyprus somehow on charges of drug-running and for filming child pornography on Cyprus where DHG had to close up his Mr Piggy delicatessen and move to Turkey.

    And Then! Godden was able to harass DHG further in Turkey at a time when the Undersecretary to the Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Selçuk was staying at Grant’s home. And when Godden was trying to get Grant kicked out of Turkey with charges pending, the British Consulate speedily renews Grant’s passport at the same time, according to the Turkish nationwide newspaper “The Milliyet Gazete” [not a local Cypriot paper] in four articles on September 4, 5, 6, 7, 1989.

    The power and influence that Clive Godden had, not only over the Slough Observer and the Cyprus authorities, but also the leading newspaper in Turkey is astonishing!

    Poor David Hamilton Grant must be kicking himself for not suing Clive Godden for all the harrassment. Oh, wait! Instead, David Hamilton Grant publically faked his own death! Well now, I guess that makes sense for someone who’s innocent of the drug-running/child pornography charges put against him.

    • Troyhand

      I won’t say I believe in Clive Godden, but David Hamilton Grant is dirty and has protection from people with power. Why?

    • Troy, I know you’ve done a great deal of research on this as have I and the team here. I know it is difficult to re-evaluate but please try.

      “Godden got Grant to leave England with false child pornography claims hanging over him” That is from Clive Godden. It is untrue.

      “Godden was able to harass DHG further in Turkey at a time when the Undersecretary to the Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Selçuk was staying at Grant’s home.” – Again from CG.

      Remember also that most of the stuff in the papers is from Clive too.

      You need to just stick to the known a verifiable facts and don’t forget to include that DHG ran off with CG’s wife.

      • Troyhand

        The news of the undersecretary of Turkish Prime Minister staying with Grant is from the Milliyet Gazete, not from CG. According to that paper it is true.

        You have a pic of David and Vanessa above which is from the Milliyet newspaper scans posted online. So I assume you’ve seen the article scans. If you haven’t seen the scans to the newspaper articles or had them translated to complete your research on DHG, here’s a link.

        And a link to my transcription of the scans. Google translate is lousy, but adequate enough to explain meat of the story. A proper translation from someone fluent in Turkish would be most helpful. Otherwise we may be talking in the dark.

        One thing I am certain of from all my research. Pornography from the 70s and 80s was completely controlled by organized crime. And infighting always appears to be a constant in organized crime. I’m in a lucky place in that I can not only can look at facts, but also point out patterns. It is naive to believe David Hamilton Grant was clean. The facts of how DHG behaved through all this matters. That all the actors in this strange drama are dirty is not hard to imagine.

        Was DHG caught with child pornography in England? It doesn’t appear so. Was he thrown out of Cyprus for drug-running/child pornography accusations? Yes. Only on Clive Godden accusations? That would be amazing! Did the Turkish newspaper invest heavily into these accusations from Cyprus for their articles? Yes. Solely on Godden’s accusations? Really? There’s still more to this story that we don’t know, especially in Cyprus and Turkey.

        I keep going back to the same question. Why didn’t DH Grant sue for libel and why did he pretend to fake his death?

        Also, just a general observation about the 70s/80s. Doesn’t it seem strange how the child pornography raids never seemed to follow the money? An example from our side: the 1977 US Congress hearings on child pornography conveniently left out the fact that a photo lab raided with thousands of CSA films was run by a Gambino crime family member. That’s the kind of power organized crime wields.

    • dpack

      that is an interesting development as it mentions blunt in both contexts,im fairly sure that he knew mcgrath quite well although i have seen no plausible evidence that puts blunt on the kincora premises.the “security services”knowledge of mg grath’s involvement in arms supply is almost certainly true if elements of the “security services”facilitated those supplies which seems extremely plausible.

      that robin bryans gets a mention in the msm is quite a leap and might complicate matters due to his writing style being his means of both telling the truth and concealing that he is telling the truth.

      that gen leng was concerned about matters and “leaked”information to try to change the situation is believable,some of the army (and spookery and “others”) wanted to stop the troubles,prevent harm(of every sort)and help create a peaceful decent world.

      i am not 100% convinced by a direct boy trafficking link between kincora and egh (or other mainland premises)but i have read plausible accounts of “travel” with semple and although that did not include “others” the fact boys were taken away by staff makes trafficking possible.there are a few stories of visits to the mainland which include “toffs”but they did not have names attached which could be taken as indicating they are plausible or confusingly vague.

      the extremely high “suicide” and murder and “misadventure” death rate among a section of the boys who were in kincora at the relevant times does reduce the pool of relevant witnesses and perhaps requires more investigation than i have managed from open source info.

  12. dpack

    breaking mirrors and ventilating smoke are among the vital tactics of establishing what is the truth.

    some smoke and mirrors is professional and created for a specific purpose.
    some random confusion is created for a variety of reasons by individuals or groups .
    some confusion is due to misunderstanding the data or due to the data being incomplete or inaccurate.

    all can be actively exploited and promoted or simply left as background noise to assist in concealing truth.
    all can be used to assist in establishing truth.

    over the last few of years of contextual research it has been the collation of small details from diverse sources that when fitted into a still developing pattern seems to have illuminated the most relevant and disturbing truths.

    many of the most lurid tales and shocking “evidence”that have been presented (by the msm, the am and a variety of individuals )have disintegrated when examined closely.
    this is both good in that specific falsehoods are exposed (and especially good if the cause of that falsehood can be established) and bad in that a “macalpine defense” may be allowed to prevail if all that is noticed is the falsehood and not the context that created it.
    there is also the possibility that some of these things are true but falsehoods have been created to “disprove “them

    an open minded ,holistic and forensic/scientific approach to seeking truth seems appropriate.

  13. I recall it well right up to the point I was attacked by other members and then banned without reason so I couldn’t defend myself.

    As for respect, if we’re talking about this post then I’d welcome what anyone has to say but if it relates to another where commentary potentially could lead to young children suffering then I don’t want it here.

    • Toejams false memory checker

      to jack- we cant reply to his “youre making this up,arent you?” No,we are not making it up,but hey if Toejam didn’t say it,iut cant be true,can it??.Message from M W-T said – “Cliff is not innocent.He is being interviewed shortly regarding further allegation.A sorry story.”
      Anf hey,Toejam-we think YOU are suffering from FALSE MEMORY SYNDROME?? ;)

      • We ?

        My memory is just fine thank you. Very very good in fact.

        • Toejams false memory checker

          We beg to differ
          But if you insist,we will say youre a very unreliable liar and establishment disinfo/spin creator,then,arent you?

          • I don’t lie and if you and your anonymous friends want to suggest otherwise then it really means very little to me.

            Soon people will be asking very serious questions about you and your anonymous friends and about why you’ve deceived so many and why you’ve attempted to hijack genuine concern over CSA. Until then – Adiós

            “The boy stood on the burning deck
            Whence all but he had fled;
            The flame that lit the battle’s wreck
            Shone round him o’er the dead.”

            • Toejams false memory checker

              What a sad sad vile specimen you are.So are you saying that only abuse victims have false memory syndrome??is that right?How evil ARE you?
              And then to bring up “mental illness” as an insult.Sick.

              People are already asking VERY SERIOUS questions abut YOU,my unlearned friend,and how YOU have deceived so many(well,so few,actually, as we hear you’ve lost a lot of readers of late..why is that?)

              By the way,did you ever track down Russell Trickers Golden Boys 10 video??lol.And what was the other one now,Lover boys or something??You KNEW what they stood for.Pathetic lying idiot.Youd have made a good politician in that respect.

  14. Bishop Brightly

    Why now Jon?

    • It seemed unnecessary before. I took down related information on the blog at the time.

      I think that soon there will be challenges and people need to understand that it isn’t the end, that exposing a few falsehoods doesn’t undermine the premise and this is a good example.

  15. paul

    just checked mwt twitter theres no mention of webb/cliff. where have you seen this ? can you give a link?

  16. colin

    I read m.w.t Twitter page daily and there has been nothing about harlry web aka cliff richard or kitty.

    • to the the disinfo queen

      no,sorry we cant give a link,he has spoken personally to our team via twitter.You can always ask him yourself.We could copy and paste his reply but knowing Toejam he either a-wouldn’t print it ,or b- wouldn’t believe it.

  17. Need all Blag -the disinfo queen

    Toejam doesn’t want to watch the distressing and heartbreaking ch4 doc with abuse survivor Richard Kerr,as it doesn’t fit into HIS deluded spin,agenda and preconceptions.

    Has Toejam read the latest from Mark WilliamsThomas regarding a certain Harry Webb?Course not,Toejams still dancing round his kitchenette to Devil Woman.

    Was Toejam at the child abuse protest yesterday?
    Of course not-dont be silly,he was probably having a nice cup of tea with his chummy little friend,the nonce-protecting liar Nick Clegg.

    • Anon

      Well, the MSM media have gone very quiet on these sort of matters since the General Election was announced, although the barrage of criticism and innuendo appearing against the Labour Party on #CSAInquiry suggests that something might be in the offing regarding those of an opposite Party getting their revenge in early in a Daily Mail-like fashion.

      Given that all BBC employees have to sign the Official Secrets Act and the threat of the use of this Act also been used against other journalists in the past, don’t expect anything appearing on Auntie even if were to appear everywhere else.

      Well, perhaps all this Elm Guest House nonsense was just a Dallas-like dream and we will all wake up one morning with happy smiling faces and discover that it never ever really happened.

      • Gary

        A small, but important point, BBC employees, as with most Civil Servants, don’t sign the “Official Secrets Act”. The agreement signed is not covered under that act and is somewhat less stringent. This is important because even although the Official Secrets Acts has not been set aside for this it does not prevent those signing standard Civil Service agreements as it cannot prevent them from disclosing a crime.

  18. joekano76

    Reblogged this on Floating-voter.

  19. Pingback: Elm Guest House And Why The Truth MattersI | Alternative News Network

  20. paul

    very interesting post.if the lists held up by mary moss aren’t true then what is? I started to have my doubts about some of these stories after the strangling tory mps.