Radio Ulster: Kincora 5th February 2015

‘Talkback’ with William Crawley, BBC Radio Ulster, 5th February 2015.

The full session is about the Troubles, but also includes discussion about Kincora. This extract covers the Kincora content, and includes interviews with Chris Moore (author of ‘The Kincora Scandal’), Naomi Long MP (Belfast East), and Mike Nesbitt (Ulster Unionist Party Leader).

The full edition is available HERE



Filed under Abuse, News, Politics

49 responses to “Radio Ulster: Kincora 5th February 2015

  1. Pingback: Radio Ulster: Kincora 5th February 2015 | Alternative News Network

  2. dpack

    the radio program was not explicit in the way it placed the events and persons connected to the kincora home in the context of other events during the troubles but the structure of the interviews and comments during the hour or so gave me the impression that context was being highlighted and that the program makers were trying to take a broad view in order to establish both details and context .

    thinking of “kincora” in terms of being one can in a variety pack of worm cans might be a useful way to learn more about the canned worm industry.

    it is sad to think that justice is impossible in regard to many matters but it might be possible to establish much of the truth.

  3. dpack

    the end of page 344 onward lays out some of the basic complexities regarding what is true and what is not true in the kincora worm can .

    the whole book is a mixture of not mentioned,true,maybe true but probably misleading and almost certainly untrue etc etc however that demonstrates demonstrates how complex the context seems to be .

    it also explains the fears that witnesses have even decades later regarding such matters .

  4. dpack

    i have been looking again at some of the material that i came across when i first tried to study the subject and it seems the truth is mostly openly available and might be obvious if we can subtract the lies and mistakes.

    perhaps starting with some plausible statements that do not seem to be very diluted with implausible ones will help . it seems likely that this might contain part of the truth .

    chapter 3 has some data regarding kincora

    • Sabre

      As I have said before, those that need to hide the truth know that it can rarely be wholly contained, the trick is lots of competing plausible explanations spice it up with doubt on the one hand and propaganda on the other and stir vigorously.

      So many people try to work out how we came to war with Afghanistan and Iraq tension with Iran and Syria etc and yet they fail to notice for example
      The 1996 briefing paper, A clean break, written by US Zionists in the neocon establishment for Binyamin Netanyahu.
      ” … Its roots can be traced, at least in part, to a paper published in 1996 by an Israeli thinktank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. Entitled “A clean break: a new strategy for securing the realm”, it was intended as a political blueprint for the incoming government of Binyamin Netanyahu. As the title indicates, it advised the right-wing Mr Netanyahu to make a complete break with the past by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism …”

  5. brian

    I see james randi has had to go into hiding after being named as one of those who abused at kincora
    now called “the digusting james randi”
    it is belived he will not be seen in public again

    • Don’t use different names to post on the same subject please.

      It’s fairly easy for me to spot.

      • Sabre

        Confucius say man with fixed IP address and writing style vulnerable to textual analysis develops split personality at own peril.

        By the way you appear to have intermittent page load probs on this page.
        That scribd may be loading a chunk of data via a web service and timing out.

  6. dpack

    this seems a plausible account of some of mcgrath’s connections and activities

    and so does this

    the whole truth might be bigger and more complex but these seem to cover a basic account of some aspects.

    this was going to be a link for folk who wish to read the whole of robin bryans’s book but i find the deletion interesting .
    maybe there is another electronic copy for folk to download and read but a quick search hasn’t found one .tdhns is a strange work that flips between decades and subjects in a sentence but i suspect that was his way of hiding the truths he wished to say.

  7. dpack

    a slight aside but the “estate of robin bryans” have set up and maintain a very well constructed website in his memory,plenty of vague eulogy that does not mention some of his more interesting subjects.
    perhaps his life and works are being “airbrushed “perhaps it is just copyright issues,if it was due to copyright issues and enough interest was being shown to justify a reprint there should be new editions of his work being advertised and published.

  8. dpack

    having just checked the needleblog’s internal search facility to see if the dust was still online via there(it isnt)the terms “robin bryans” gives some interesting topics with links and “kincora” gives quite a few more ,also with links.

  9. dpack

    there have been a variety of stories relating to members of parliament actually visiting kincora including a “senior conservative”.
    the “conservative and unionist party ” as it was called during some of the relevant time had as a very senior member sir knox cunningham who seems a very plausible candidate for a visitor however he retired as an mp in 1970 and he died in 1976.
    he knew mcgrath quite well and was a lifelong chum of blunt (and has quite a few other factors of interest in relation to context ).

    this cutting from private eye popped up while i was working through mps with a belfast connection in the correct timescale.

  10. dpack

    check out the purpose of this blog in the top corner

    the theme of most of the content does seem plausible ,clockwork jimmy is probably a very good file title.
    it seems likely that the works of robin bryans at least partially informed the opinions stated .

    having looked at dickie for a couple of years and so far only found data indicating a top level player of realpolitic (an understatement as i consider him capable of serious psychopathic management protocols in order to achieve his objectives) with a varied but plausibly non abusive private life .

    i found this while looking for a simple explanation of where mckeague might fit into both detail and context.

    the follow the guns theme needs some attention.

  11. dpack

    another small aside ,the list of those with super injunctions is available but some of the search results regarding these chaps are rather infected with nasty malware.if you do explore make sure you have industrial strength anti virus etc .
    it is always a good idea but in this sort of search tis extra important to turn it up to eleven .

  12. dpack

    ps first on the list might have an extra “wife” .so what? .im surprised he has the time but i dont care.

    • Can you email over list please ?

      • dpack

        sent .i didnt post it for legal reasons and cos first one seemed fairly harmless so until “proven” guilty etc perhaps they deserve privacy.

        if i am correct the reason for the first is similar to quite a few mainland ones and perhaps they shouldn’t need to hide such things.

  13. The guy holding the poster is the “alleged demon pastor`s” alleged “boyfriend”
    The guy to the left of the alleged boyfriend is called Paul Berry. He was an upcoming, political highflier when this was filmed in 1998. In 2005 he crashed and burned as far as a bigtime political career goes. Funny Old World ain`t it?

  14. You can be sure there will be NO GENUINE inquiry into abuse in the UK until characters like Leon Brittan, Alan Campbell, etc, etc, are long dead.

  15. paul

    THE DUST HAS NEVER SETTLED back up on scribd

  16. paul

    Another book referencincing KINCORA. GOD AND THE GUN by martin Dillon.
    the chapter FOR GOD AND ULSTER starting on page 207. references to William McGrath,anthony blunt,knox Cunningham etc.interesting allegations

    • dpack

      thanks for pointing us to that chapter/book.
      it seems to a broadly accurate overview of the situation.
      a few points :
      mckeague was not an easy target for over a decade and i cant imagine he got less careful as he got older and more at risk,i suspect his assassination was related to his boast/threat that he knew enough to be safe .
      inla were a very odd bunch with surprisingly good intel,targeting and execution in the high profile operations ascribed to them,much of the time they seem to have been involved in internecine strife among republicans .they might plausibly be thought of as an element of the “gangs and countergangs” strategy.

      mc grath had acess to arms for tara and plausibly gave some of this very limited supply to mckeague or spence (or an unknown )but he did get a moderate sized consignment of assorted arms in the late 1960’s.these were “untraceable” as they had been captured in the 1967 war in the middle east ,sold to armscorp in south africa where some were collated into small batches for supply to a variety of organizations world wide ,probably with the knowledge of elements of mi6/cia and authorized as part of the clandestine cold a strange coincidence heniker 8 was in south africa at the time.
      it is plausible that some of mcgrath’s influence was based on supplying arms to the paramilitaries but up to about 1970 the amount of arms and ordinance was fairly small,ie enough for “stay behind” or “propaganda by deed” campaigns but not enough for the type of paramilitary activities of the 1970’s which required several boatloads to every side.
      a slight aside on the subject of arms ,some of the handguns supplied by gadaffi to the republicans (among the several tons of assorted kit in 3 successful and one intercepted deliveries)had been sold to libya with a uk authorized end user certificate (which caused a bit of a fuss but was quietly forgotten).i added this to cover the possibility that the arms supplied to a variety of paramilitaries might have,at least to some extent ,had an element of spooky approval.there are a lot of strange stories about the links between gadaffi and western intel/action spooks some of which might be true.

      follow the guns can be a useful way to find spiders.

  17. dpack

    ps download the dust as it is a good read, if a little odd til one gets used to his timeslip style,and it is best studied in a way notes can be added ,i find foxit reader quite useful for such things.

  18. paul

    there was a follow up book Robin Bryans wrote called LET THE PETALS FALL. 1993 unavailable as usual. same type of rambling allegations as DUST. REVIEW FROM LOBSTER 26
    Let the Petals Fall
    Robin Bryans
    Honeyford Press
    58 Argyle Road, London W13 8AA, f,9.75
    Another slice from the memories of Robin Bryans. (The first volume was reviewed in Lobster 25.) An extraordinary cavalcade of names, faces and odd events. If you liked volume L, you’lllike this. While I was keyboarding this I opened the book at random and this is the parag-r aph my eye fell on. ‘Sally’s step-brother, however, Joe Ackerley, was not a bastard and made himself famous with his homosexuality and exposes of some of his lovers. Joe’s
    editor at Cambridge, Anthony Blunt, kept in touch with Sally, who had been married once since 1945 to Blunt’s friend from 1921 who became the 4th Duke of Westminster in 1963, as well as with ]oe. Not even when Diana Petrie wrote a bookabout her father in 1975, The Secret Orchard of Roger Ackerley, did the secret about Sally come out. Joe Ackerley took credit for having introduced the policeman, Bob Buckingham, to E.M. Forster who became the great love of the novelist’s life, although Forster kept up with life as Forrest Reid lived it at Ormiston Crescent in Belfast. Ian Paisley not only took over Pastor Rea’s mantle as a preacher on the Ravenhill Road, but built one of the largest churches in post-war Europe there called the Martyr’s Memorial
    Church complete with busts of Luther and Calvin and one of Dennis Parry. A powerful influence on Paisley’s youthful preaching had been Teddy Sherwood
    on his soapbox swinging his gold boxer’s belt on the sands of Barry Island, but the made-to-measure-martyr Dennis Parry had actually shared Paisley’s bedroom at the Barry School of Evangelism and a Gospel Carivan with me in th; hills of Abergavenny.’ (p. 368.) And there are 438 more pages of stuff
    like that.

  19. dpack

    interesting ,i think i need to seek access to that book.
    the “unavailable” aspect is perhaps less to do with the style not being to many folk’s taste but more to do with the content

    the tales from the caravan have a few really hysterically funny moments

  20. dpack

    it seems unavailable in ebook,pdf,paper and even torrent file share formats at the mo .harder to find than dust .
    anybody able to help?

    ps england’s parish churches is easy to find so i suspect it is the content rather than a lack of interest in his works causing rarity.

  21. paul

    i’ll do an intensive search for it over next couple of weeks. if I find anything i’ll post info here on this thread.

  22. paul

    I have a contact who knows a relative who thinks shes got a copy in her attic. shes a big book collector so may take a few days . keep you posted when I get more info.
    until then for people who haven’t read early lobster magazines ,with bits of info on kincora,issues 1,2,4 have been put on scribd.

  23. dpack

    ive not got any futher with the living but i have been having a look at a few of the dead

    MP could have been saved –

    there is the original official interpretation
    there is the perhaps to protect fru assets in pira version
    the witches version(the old 14 det black op)
    the pira propaganda by deed version in response to sectarian murders

    etc etc

    i feel it possible that it might be a bit more complex
    if he was a decent chap (whatever his overt or covert loyalties)he might have found out things he thought needed exposing or at least stopping,if he was a wrong un he might have become a security risk.

    he had a few bits of history that could indicate he was a long term asset (close links with the national front and fluffyish fundamentalist christians seems a bit odd)he remained a methodist evangelical(paisley ,bryans ,and many others started with that team and developed a long history of being useful to a variety of spooks)although joining n i based church might have been more appropriate to his political activities he remained a methodist preacher.

    that the fru were involved is very plausible and any statements from “ex fru officers”require careful consideration(some are decent and honest to the best of their knowledge but they all are of suspect bone fides)

    The Muckraker

    the woman writing the book has posted a few “teasers”but if she had anything solid and a sense of self preservation i recon she would have gone public as loudly as possible as soon as possible.

    if he was an spook asset my instinct is he was recruited by 6 at a fairly early age .
    it is plausible his murder was convenient rather than a simple but high profile sectarian hit, to whom and why it was convenient is unclear from the available data but the fru were a very rum bunch.

    this one seems to provide more questions than answers but he fits in somewhere,i recon he was a risk to somebody and worth putting into context.

    it is possible he was about to spill the beans regarding truths that were being hidden , bradford was shot mid nov 81,mckeague was shot late jan 82,so apart from a bit of a crimbo holiday they were almost contemporary killings and bradford was killed only weeks before mcgrath’s guilty plea to a few specimen charges .

    do you recon it is the “dead before spoken to mp”

  24. dpack

    these articles have a few nuggets of potentially useful data but getting them to link was beyond me

    an phoblacht
    then use their search for kincora ( keep the all dates when asked ,press search)
    there should be 7 results and most have a few interesting details

    the writers have their own agenda but the data regarding kincora related persons and events does seem to be reasonably well informed.
    the bits that are “new”to the narrative do seem to make sense and are probably worth following up and the things that are “old”do seem to broadly match data from different sources.

  25. dpack

    Unionist Law and Order (Free article)
    McNamara calls for curbs on MI5 (Free article)

    Death of Paul Foot (Free article)

    Fifth Column (Free article)

    Review – BBC documentary confronts Ludlow murderers (Free article)

    Belfast’s Kincora scandal and MI5 must be part of Westminster paedophile

    inquiry – Ken Livingstone (Free article)New sex abuse allegations against crown forces in 1970s require independent investigation (Free article)

    it might be these

  26. dpack

    yep those are the ones .

  27. dpack

    ps just because data matches that from other sources does not exclude the possibility that they are all mistaken.
    the reason i mention that is several of the articles refer to allegations about senior officials and vips being “clients” , although it is possible that some of those allegations are true it is very plausible some have been created to hide simple but very important truths in a mass of complex misleading or false data.

    perhaps the most important simple truth is that it seems very likely that the activities mcgrath and mckeague (and therefore any organizations they commanded )were controlled by elements of the spooks and that considerable effort was put into attempting to gain and/or maintain control of those in political life .

    there is a parallel thread to these matters in that the role of elements of the spooks controlling republican terrorism and politics is also a mixture of some simple truths concealed in a mass of misleading and untrue data.
    for example the “steaknife” saga and “inla” story both seem to be important and perhaps subjects where more simple truths could be found in a complex and confusing mess.
    that there was effort to gain and maintain republican political life can be assumed .
    perhaps the roles of dark forces conducting dark activities should not be overlooked on the mainland of the uk and further afield to discover if there are any similarities or connections to the n i situation.

  28. dpack

    perhaps the most powerful investigative tool is cui bono?

  29. paul

    false alarm. shes traced the book LET THE PETALS FALL but its by Margaret long,its not the robin bryans book of the same name. its back to monitoring rare book sellers and ebay,amazon etc

  30. dpack

    “No copies of this book were found in stock from
    458 online book stores and marketplaces.”

  31. dpack

    it does get a mention in the muddle (a typo but an accurate one )of this rather interesting discussion.
    if the allegations about that part of the history of the vatican are correct the implications might explain quite a few things.
    robin bryans was an expert at putting cats among pigeons.

  32. paul

    another part of a book on kincora.

    going to spend another couple of days looking for PETALS,someone must have a copy

    • dpack

      interesting data and interpretations .
      perhaps it is the little details that might add up to a better understanding of the mechanisms and engineers.

      that the ruc investigation interviewed that many witnesses surprised me a bit ,i had assumed they were “discouraged “at a much earlier stage ie before they had spoken with that many former residents and gathered such a huge mass of witness statements which were describing a pattern of events over many years .

      if they were “good coppers” they must have been very upset at the way their work was (and still is)suppressed .

  33. dpack

    and the linked page

    both have some interesting information and interpretation

    it isnt what i was looking for but it seemed relevant .
    i was trying to remember the name of a senior policeman who (if i remember correctly )was related to mcgrath and then try to see if he was possibly connected to the inhibition of the police inquiries.

  34. dpack

    my bad memory but

    perhaps it was mains’s brother i was thinking of ,thankyou mr quinn.

  35. dpack

    tis nice to see heniker 8 gets a mention .

    even if it isnt in relation to his time in south africa which along with his anglo irish masonic links lead to mcgrath .

    or in relation to his soe links to maclean ,neave,courtney that put him close to the rise of thatcher and chums.

    or that his son (h9)has phil the greek as a godfather .

    tis educational to see the clockwork being polished with a big fluffy duster which makes a small part shine whilst hiding the mechanism.

    maybe we should expand on these themes in a new thread perhaps ” who was h8″could be a working title