Correction And Direction

I have been recently contacted by someone extremely reliable who directed me to a comment left by Justin Sanity on this blog. Effectively that person suggested to me that this comment was more accurate than any other public accounts and that the author, Justin, very obviously knew what he was talking about.

That person also made it clear to me that Leon Brittan was not involved in the primary allegation of sexual abuse at Elm Guest House and that stories that Lord Brittan had been were inaccurate at best, and at worst verging on fantasy.

I accept what that person had to say and I believe that person.

My only interest in the Elm Guest House story from this point onward is to get an answer to the question; ‘Just how did this entire issue become so muddied and damaging to so many innocent people ?’

Found it! I found that article in The Telegraph, by David Barrett, Tim Tate and Christopher Hope, where I first read a claim that the Elm Guest House child victim – now an adult living in the US – had confirmed Leon Brittan as an abuser: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10950138/Westminster-paedophile-ring-allegations-Scotland-Yard-detectives-trace-victim.html

“Scotland Yard has tracked down a child at the centre of an alleged 1980s Westminster paedophile ring who has implicated a senior political figure, The Telegraph can disclose.
The man – now in his 40s, whose identity is known to this newspaper – is a successful entrepreneur based in the United States and has given a detailed account of how he was assaulted by the politician.[ LIES! ]
However, the alleged victim – who was initially willing to co-operate – has so far refused to make a formal statement to British detectives”.

“Police are understood to have sent a United States investigator to interview the victim of alleged abuse at Elm Guest House, in Barnes, south-west London, who is now a successful businessman in his early 40s in the east coast US.
A US law enforcement officer, who had recently returned home after concluding a secondment to the Fernbridge team, was asked to interview the man on Scotland Yard’s behalf earlier this year.
The alleged victim is understood to have named the senior figure. [Bullsh*t] During his original interview in 1982 the child referred to his abuser working at “the big house” [no, he didn’t], which detectives believe was the Houses of Parliament.
The US officer reported back to Scotland Yard that the alleged victim was “ready to spill the beans” [more lies] and advised them to travel to America immediately to conduct a formal interview.
But by the time travel plans had been arranged, the man had changed his mind for unknown reasons and refused to co-operate, The Daily Telegraph understands”

“Fernbridge detectives also interviewed a retired police officer who was involved in the original Elm Guest House investigation and who interviewed the alleged victim at the time.
This newspaper understands the retired detective was reluctant to go into detail about why information about the politician was not included into witness statements at the time or submitted into evidence as part of a potential prosecution. [No, he was “reluctant” to be bullied into stating that the boy said anything at all about an “Uncle Leon” – because that is a lie!]
His reluctance, which appears to reinforce the case for an amnesty, is understood to have stemmed from the policeman’s fear that he could face disciplinary action, or other legal implications, or lose his pension”.

Nonsense! This whole storyline is so obviously fraudulent…I don’t know what to say. I really believed there was a sincere campaign to uncover and comprehend the truth, but it is becoming more & more clear to me that the campaign has really been about constructing a web of lies that would justify FRAMING an innocent man for crimes he never committed. I’m just shocked that so many respectable and respected persons publicly support all of this – not least of which being Mark Williams-Thomas and Tom Watson. OMG!

The real story: Lee Towsey never mentions Carole Kasir’s son, which means he was probably never at Elm Guest House and the whole “little queen” story is another of Fay’s fabrications. Kasir’s son was taken into care because his parents were convicted of “keeping a disorderly house” and judged to be unfit parents on that basis. Fay might actually have been “at the police station”, but he was never a real social worker, so more likely he was there as a friend of the Kasir family. The boy never said anything about “uncle leon” or “the big house”, so there never was anything mysteriously omitted from the police report. Op. Fernbridge probably did make contact with him, as an adult living in the US, and no doubt he simply refused to talk to them. Someone decided to take advantage of his total disinterest in discussing the subject with anyone, by falsely claiming that he had “made a full statement” and “named the politician” but later “changed his mind and refused to co-operate”.

The Needle

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70 responses to “Correction And Direction

  1. Pingback: Correction And Direction | Alternative News Network

  2. benco

    Ok, but what are the credentials which lead you to believe this contributor over and above the authors of the article?

    • Totally agree, and more to the point do not get the point of this post.

      Nobody disputes there is evidence the LB abused kids. Also nobody disputes that many investigations into VIP were stopped and evidence vanished.

      So we know evidence that LB abused kids. We know that LB was also powerful enough to have other evidence destroy. As to how many kids LB abused and where? does it matter?

      I don’t know Gojam between your tweets on LB’s cousin and now this not sure how to read you. Assuming you have only so much time in a day to write about this stuff why, when there is so much to cover, would you waste any time on this?

      • Spook Hunter

        Mr Gojam Sawyers a vile paid off government spook,thats why.Wonder what Bill Maloney makes of this tripe,that Sawyers written

      • If you’re the kind of person that wonders what Bill Maloney has to say then you’re not the kind of person whose opinions about myself I give much credence to.

  3. Mark Wolff

    Ok, what about the missing files?

  4. tdf

    and also what about the fact that some allegedly involved in Elm House were subsequently convicted in relation to child abuse in completely separate cases? Does seem to show the story has some validity, no?

  5. GoJam-

    I can only relate what the senior detective involved in the case told me. Some of it tallies with Justin’s take, some of it doesn’t.

    Specifically: the detective reached the conclusion that there was credible prime facie evidence pointing to Brittan having abused ONE boy at EGH. However, this evidence was absolutely not copper-bottomed and needed a great deal more work. He accepted that it might never be proved.

    He had also reached the conclusion that the other claims of wider sexual abuse at EGH were not true. Specifically, one alleged victim’s story contained detailed descriptions of the physical lay out of the building which could not be true.

    Further, he had reached the very firm conclusion that Chris Fay had either presented (not necessarily maliciously) as ‘evidence’, claims and/or material which was not accurate. Additionally, Mr Fay’s involvement with complainants had led to the contamination of their evidence and, the detective believed, had actually shaped some of them.

    The customs officer story about Brittan being stopped at Dover with child pornography also, as has been made clear, emanated from this detective. I wrote it exactly as he told me.

    I have absolutely no way of independently corroborating the detective’s conclusions – and nor does anyone else at this point. Was he telling the truth ? I have no reason to believe otherwise: he made plain that he believed Brittan was guilty of some illegal behaviour, but that the vast majority of what had been alleged was not true.

    You ask how we have got to this point ? My view – which you have kindly allowed me to out forward on other threads here – is that this whole story has been marked by truly irresponsible and shoddy journalism. Claims made by one alleged victim or ‘expert’ are published (anonymously) without any apparent attempt to check their credibility.

    The way to resolve this is – asI have suggested on more than on occasion here and on other blogs – for the Home Affairs Committee to subpoeana the detective, the customs officer and all the Brittan-related documentation.

    Truth is best served by openness. Brittan is dead: no purpose – no legitimate purpose – can be served by locking away vital information. Because the alternative is that wild and irresponsible rumour mongering by journalists who should (but don’t) know better will obscure the facts in a welter of conspiracy theories

    • Hi Tim.

      I think that the “primary allegation” which I’ve referred to and the “One boy” you’ve referred to relate to different cases/incidents. I’ve no doubt that what you’ve related is accurate. Perhaps a little cross purposes going on.

  6. When the whole Savile thing broke I warned anyone who would listen that, given my 30 odd years experience in another field, that this is exactly what would happen.

    I would caution many that, Brittan because he was Jewish, has attracted much support that some how claims the accusations were racially motivated, that is absolute and utter hogwash as well and simply serves to muddy the waters even further It is a known fact in political circles the Brittan as far back as the 1970s,was begging colleagues in the house “Not to listen to any of the rumours about his private life” and that, by the early 80s it was an open secret in Whitehall as to his sexual proclivities. Any one who tells you any different, no matter who they might be is simply telling fibs should they claim otherwise.

    in fact, if anything him being Jewish probably contributed to him going unmasked for so long, exactly as it has with another suspect. I have no beef with any race or culture that’s just how it works when you have an extremely powerful lobbying group and connections of the highest order up the wazoo.

    If you want a clue as to who the one’s disseminating the most credible misinformation mixed in with a basis of truth look for those who seek to “take people into their confidence”, knowing damn full well, no names no no pack drill, what they have said will be immediately shared with names etc redacted. The sort of people who act all earnest about cases that amount to not a whole lot of anything and yet, seem curiously aggrieved when other more “interesting” cases crop up,. This is a classic misinformation scam that has been used time and time again in my own field.

    It works brilliantly because, you end up quoting people you have total faith in and then find out that, whilst some of what they said was true actually, you can;t really trust a word they say as they have a wholly different agenda and you are being used to those ends

    Eventually these people will trip themselves up, they can;t help it they simply can;t remember what they said to whom and when all the time or, they wuill answer a question you haven’t actually asked. The key sign of one of these, well let’s be honest, they trolls, is that they will suddenly move from clam and affable to agitated and curt, the moment you want to push something they are trying to hide. If you insist in following up on the subject they will then become ever more aggressive and belligerent.

    A colleague of mine, who’s no saint by any means and never has hidden the fact, went through this exact same routine. To the point that, his troll called him after he’d been to an unscheduled meeting with a newspaper editor and demanded to know what they were discussing. Yes, he was called by someone about a meeting he’d just left when supposedly the meeting was ad hoc and only he and the editor knew about it, make of that what you will. Now if that’s the sort of skulduggery that goes on in my field one which is very much a fringe field, be warned they will be full on when it comes to covering the establishment’s arse.

    Allow me to finish with a tale from my own field that amply illustrates the problems you are facing here. When i moved to London to attend college in the late 70s I was in effect, mentored by a guy called Rex Dutta, look him up, interesting and nigh on genius of a bloke. Through Rex I met some incredibly well connected people including many ex servicemen who, had been treated publicly like fools by the MOD over certain experiences they had had. They wanted answers and on their retirement ,spent much of their time in researching their field. However, no matter the provocation, the cause, the possibilities, they would never cross a certain line if that involved as they saw it, betraying their country or the oath they took on signing up to the armed forces. Remember that when ever you are speaking to ex coppers and the like.

    My apologies if the tone of this post seems a tad obscure, the point remains though, I and many like me, have decades of experience of wheedling out even the most basic information from Government sources and files. The most common excuse we have heard for all those decades is…”Oh, that file is missing, I, cant imagine why”…sound familiar does it?

    • John Derbyshire

      I would agree with you on that the former MP being Jewish is hogwash. When being involved in the Richmond by-election I heard rumours about the deceased and viewed it as gossip. One was that he was removed by Thatcher from the post of Home Secretary and side-lined to the DTI because of indiscretions and when Westland arose she made him fall on his sword, but not for the giving reasons. One rumour monger said people have known about it since the 1970;s
      Of course this leaves the issue of why he was appointed to the government t in the first pace (fear of blackmail) and secondly his elevation to home secretary?
      What really concerns me most of all is the role of the National archives, so many files have long closures and some are closed to anyone reading this blog will be long. My own view is that time will prove people right or wrong on this issue, but as the old police inspector would say, sometimes these people protest their innocence too much.

  7. Gary

    Hmmm. The waters become no clearer after his death. Something worth noting in itself..?

  8. dpack

    finding broken mirrors and/or burned out smoke machines and then understanding their origin and purpose can be a very effective way to seek truth.
    there does seem to be a great deal of conflicting data on the subject of what leon did or did not do .
    scientific method is based on adjustment of the hypothesis as new data becomes available .

  9. nuggy

    britan was a Jewish tory eruophile which made him a target for both the left and the right.

  10. Sabre

    Gojam,
    Starting at the beginning of your post, you were contacted by someone knowledgable and they briefed you on a ‘Chatham House Rules’ basis?

  11. nuggy

    ive allways had this feeling that innocent people were being named to protect the guilty..

  12. Sabre

    Brittan wasn’t involved in the primary allegation re Elm Guest House abuse, seems like very careful language that makes implications about secondary allegations?
    What does verging on fantasy mean ? The allegations are true, false or as yet undetermined?

    Why has this unattributable source allowed damaging innuendo to go unchallenged while the man was alive.

  13. nuggy

    surely as a minster or comisinor or what ever he was when he was supposed to have done it he wouldn’t of had to go through customs.

  14. Sabre

    Short of water boarding the likes of Warwick and Sid, the high profile nonces are likely to have been supplied with their pleasures rather than hanging around parks, schools and care homes, we will never get to the bottom of all this.

  15. artmanjosephgrech

    There are three areas of charges made against Leon Brittan …. the Dickens dossier cover up, the rape of adult young woman and the multifarious allegations re underage males where in addition Elm House at least one survivor talked of North Wales and elsewhere

    This is one of the reasons I suggests it would be helpful to get from Home Office/ Police a similar statement of how many current and former Houses of Parliament are being investigated and in how many instances have papers been passed to the CPS.

    Ideally more information such as the breakdown living and departed between House of Commons and Lords and Political Party allegiance at time of alleged offences.

    At some point when the current police investigations are over such as re Savile, Smith and Brittan. re completed the conclusions should at least be shared and possibly a statement made by the official panel. In relation to the first nursery investigation for example the original report ( now withdrawn following an action for damages) mentioned that an allegation had been made against a named politician but not found to merit further action. The civil action was not brought by the politician but by others named in the report . The report did not mention that the DSS had a relationship with a key officer but he chose to go on TV and given his version the matter, more lie than truth however which emphasises the need to a formal inquiry where allegations can be tested.

    This is why it will be necessary for whichever form of inquiry takes places the legal advice will be crucial and confidentiality among all those involved in the investigation crucial until there is an agreed publication of a finding.
    For this reason it was wrong from the outset to include any survivor or anyway not used and understanding the various forms of confidentiality required in any investigation into the abuse of power by the state.

    There is a similar case which is why the majority of the panel is as it is for having those with managerial as professional experience in assessing the why and how it happened… the need for the big picture and to be able to identify those most likely to have knowledge/ info on documentation.

    As with the Holocaust there is also need for survivor in number to record their stories and what happened to them subsequent… as is proposed in the UL Holocaust centre the Spielberg look at subsequent lives to that horrendous experience,,, making sure investigations make of this once only opportunity is now important that chasing devils real or manufactured. I saw .

    I is under the Witches of Salem .MaCarthy Communism witch hunt that major miscarriages of justice can arise however there was cover up by the State both in the national interest and for unacceptable reasons… that why if practical some testimony needs t be heard in public according to the rules of due process.

  16. Abby

    It’s amazing that so many people should have put faith in someone convicted for laundering the money for a boiler room scam, i.e. where scammers cold call the targets and tell them stories about fake investments to get them to part with their money. You only have to see those interviews he did with BM to see that he is relishing telling his gruesome stories.

    “I’m just shocked that so many respectable and respected persons publicly support all of this – not least of which being Mark Williams-Thomas…”
    Why wouldn’t he? He did those programmes with allegations about a dead man. Allegations that two very assiduous bloggers have investigated in considerable detail. It is his business, literally as he is apparently self-employed, and people have to make a living.

    Far too much is being taken at face value. Those driving this process are not open to scrutiny and there are plenty of questions that could be asked. Pointing fingers at people, drumming up allegations, then requiring people to *prove their innocence* in court is not what happens in a democracy.

  17. Jack humphreys

    I am afraid there is too much corroborative evidence on leon britten
    to dismess him
    for anyone who wa s going to vote green party
    see this on their spokesman

    http://juliagasper.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/peter-tatchells-links-to-paedophile.html

    • Archie_V

      “Corroborative evidence” is, in fact, precisely what is conspicuous by its absence in the many allegations about Leon Brittan. Take Exaro’s three Dolphin House witnesses, for example (now apparently reduced to two, “Nick” and “Darren” – what happened to the other one?). Both have placed Brittan at abuse “parties” there. Neither of them corroborates the details of the other’s story. One saw three murders, while another saw no murders but did see a leopard room and a medical room that the first one didn’t mention … and so on. The same goes for EGH and Dover: nobody has come forward to corroborate Chris Fay’s claims of pinnies and Polaroids or to sort out the mess of who or what was on the Tricker tape or whether Brittan was caught smuggling in CSA material or not. And who has confirmed the accuracy of the Moss list of supposed EGH regulars? Nobody.

      Yes, there are many, many claims being made about Brittan, some of them lurid and clearly nonsense and others that are clearly plausible and merit further investigation, but – quite strikingly – they are practically all single, discrete, uncorroborated one-offs: they don’t overlap. Compare and contrast this situation with the multiple “Jane Does” in the Epstein case, whose stories match in practically every detail, and alarm bells should be ringing very loudly, as they apparently now are for Gojam.

      • Just where do you expect to find this corroborative evidence? To the best of my knowledge the investigation into the rape claim against Brittan was partly based on the fact the woman involved could give a specific description of Brittan which did indeed suggest she had seen him in such a state as to have “intimate” knowledge of him physically. Given Brittan denied flat out have any sort of relationship with the woman then one has to ask, how could she possibly know such details and a quick interview should have been enough to have cleared this up. If Brittan refused this perfectly reasonable request and given his lack of honesty about the Dicken’s files then quite naturally, one can;t help suspecting he had something to hide.

        Do you really have the slightest clue about the very nature of the vast majority of abuse? It takes place behind closed doors on a very much , one to one basis. Furthermore it tends to rarely be simply “opportunistic” and is often carefully planned and the person involved groomed to the extent that, when it finally occurs, there is little or no chance of anyone else seeing or knowing. So, in Brittan’s case we are left hoping that, someone or some people walked in on him, he openly confessed or, one of his victims comes forward.

        You want circumstantial corroborative evidence? Well here’s some,, interestingly enough, Brittan attended a rare mixed sex private school HABS, So just maybe. there’s a clue as to his behaviour towards a girl who, at the time of the claimed assault apparently,, looked under age. Then again that could be pure coincidence however, I would suggest given the gravitas of his position then, someone at the Met most probably had him profiled and the profile came back as having “positive markers” that he had possibly indulged in abusive activities.after the woman made her claims.

        As for photographic evidence then I will direct you to the Daily Mirror and Lord Boothby. They paid out damages and said they were wrong because they were forced to, even though, they actually had the very proof he denied existed, namely a photograph of him sitting with Kray twin and a known rent boy. That is, it is a proven fact that, particularly the Tory party , are proven to be happy to see justice go unserviced, merely to keep a guilty person’s name clean for solely political reasons.

  18. GMB

    Well done gojam. Here it is in your own words ‘Found it! ‘ What a waste of tax payers money. The Met has spent millions on this case only to be trumped by a blogger. Again well done.They won’t be calling you PC gojam for much longer I think a promotion to Segeant is on its way.
    As a sideline request can anybody tell me where the witness list for the Dr Kelly inquest can be found?

  19. gw

    To quote rap-metal band “Limp Bizkit”

    “Its all about he said, she said, bullshit”

    regards

  20. Bishop Brightly

    I’m confused by this piece.

    Are the paragraphs in italics from the comment, from gojam, or from where?

  21. GMB

    Nice to be appreciated

    Subject: Re: X X
    Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:34:04 +0000
    From: Xmet.police.uk
    To: X@X.com
    You really should be working for us! Thanks p

  22. GMB

    I hate to be picky, but for 2 days I have been waiting for you to respond on Ian Pace’s blog to a request that you cut and paste the sections of the Solanki transcript that prove (in your view) that he named Brittan as someone he saw on a child abuse video.

    You have failed to respond.

    Is there an explanation ? You have certainly managed to post on here and other threads.

  23. Sabre

    The Establishment needn’t have worried, the fourth estate are feeding stories ( That should have been covered ten, twenty and thirty years ago) out, they are hobbling their own stories, the sub text is that we are exaggerating and defaming the dead, don’t believe us.

    All the proprietors have dogs in the political fight, one or more will have to make the gambit of going too far, the inquiries will be deemed unnecessary.

    A panorama type programme complete with its off the record briefings with ‘contacts’ (spooks and officials) will give us an award winning expose of ‘a plot by anti-euro, anti-Zionist or anti- ( insert flavour to taste) faction(s) of the security service’ having besmirched the reputations of our selfless political representatives in furtherance of a diabolical agenda.

    The security service will of course neither confirm or deny the allegations,

  24. Sabre

    Mangold and Corbin your country needs you !

  25. Sabre

    A couple with one too many kids living on a council estate, unemployed for a month too long, claiming one benefit to many and the press winds us all up as a howling mob against the feckless enemy of The State.

    Westminster elite believed to be involved in kiddie rape and murder, film at 11.

    News management, the presentation of a story, a thing of beauty.

  26. Simon Lamplighter

    stardog23 wrote:
    “Just where do you expect to find this corroborative evidence?”

    I think Archie_V’s point is that the corroborative evidence is missing where we might reasonably “expect to find” it: in the statements of alleged victims. In its absence we have only the feverish mess of confused speculation that stardog23’s “circumstantial corroborative evidence” (i.e. no evidence at all) typifies.

  27. Bishop Brightly

    I really don’t under stand Gojam.

    Are you saying ELM is a fantasy?

    The Monday club letter with the Dutch venture and Spartacus on the door.

    Abuse happened there and even the Police have said they believe Cyril Smith was there.

    So to say you have no interest in it now after three years seems odd beyond comprehension.

    • Hi BB,

      I know you take a studied interest in this and have done for a considerable time.

      This post falls into two parts. The first, almost explanation, is written by myself. The second is a direct full quotation of a post that an extremely reliable source felt others should read, hence the direction.

      For the first part, it is extremely specific and carefully worded. If there is ambiguity and fault it is mine but I’ve desperately tried to be as explicit as I possibly can within certain confines.

      The second part, I felt that given the undoubted knowledge/understanding of issues by the source that contacted me and directed me to it, I should in fairness present it to those interested, like yourself, with more prominence than it would otherwise receive if simply left in the comments unflagged.

      I really don’t want to be drawn into a dissection and debate on what is written, Hence I’ve not replied to some comments asking for clarification as I’ve picked my words carefully and with good reason.

      However, to address what you’ve raised, In a very broad sense this post has no bearing on the points you’ve raised. Specifically, the Cyril Smith and Spartacus I consider beyond doubt but Monday Club and ‘Dutch venture’ I consider speculative in connection to EGH..

      You ask; is ELM a fantasy ?

      In answer, I’d say it really depends on what you mean by ELM. Obviously there was a guest house, that is not fantasy and there are other areas where there is undoubted fact but if you mean the intricate and complex theory laid out in documents posted online, then I’d say that is a myth. Some of the problems arise from trying to distinguish what is myth and what is fact.

      I use the word myth rather than fantasy deliberately because a myth might have a factual basis but has been embellished and over a period of time, in this case a relatively short time, the mythologising process and circumstances can make it virtually impossible to distinguish between fact and embellishment. Whereas a fantasy is completely made up.

      I hope that clarifies

      • gw

        “Just how did this entire issue become so muddied and damaging to so many innocent people ?’”

        In part, this was because “unnamed sources” who are/were “close to the investigation/ events at the time/ etc ” feeding journalists and bloggers questionable information.

        regards
        We have no idea who they are.

      • Hahaha!

        Fair play.

        Often there are very good reasons why names are hidden but sometimes it is used by some journos to disguise a dodgy source. You can only really tell the difference if you understand the nature of the content the source has contributed. That hasn’t muddied the issue for me personally and so doesn’t answer my question.

      • gw

        I trust you didn’t take that personally.

        It’s an issue which extends across the whole of media – not just particular subject. CF with “unnamed Whitehall official” or “security sources” in the run up the latest intervention or anti terror bill.

        I remember you mentioned that Paul Foot thought EGH was a distraction from Kincora.. untill he talked to Chris Fay!

        Perhaps that avenue is where we find our answers.

      • Sabre

        The ideal cover up relies on perfect control of multifarious sources of information, an impossibility in the real world.

        The ideal solution is always an aspiration, one settles for an optimal solution. The classic is probably the Kennedy Assassination, the lone gunman did it (Oswald), he learned Russian, he was a marksman, he was a mediocre shot, he defected to Soviet Union, he came back again, he was Marxist and pro Castro, he worked for Guy Banister and was really pro US. On the other hand The CIA did it continuation of policy in South East Asia and Cuba, The Israelis did it (Dimona inspection insisted upon by Kennedy), The Mob did it ( overlap with Cuba/ Batista whoring and gambling), The military industrial complex did it ( non interventionist foreign policy needs less bullets tanks fighters ships etc etc) , LBJ did it ( vain ambition and a better pay day) , the Tramps on the grassy knoll did it at the behest of CIA/Mossad/Soviet Union/Mafia/LBJ/Military Industrial Complex (delete and add principals according to taste and prejudice) .

        You can’t guarantee secrecy so you flood the scene with all manner of possibilities. The assassin stares you in the face, try picking him out of the crowd though. The job’s a good’un.

  28. Bishop Brightly

    If the senior officer told Tim Tate that “He had also reached the conclusion that the other claims of wider sexual abuse at EGH were not true.” then we can all go home can’t we?

  29. Bishop Brightly

    Perhaps Tim Tate could clear this point up for me. He says in the comments:

    ” My view – which you have kindly allowed me to out forward on other threads here – is that this whole story has been marked by truly irresponsible and shoddy journalism.”

    But the Telegraph article in Gojams piece, annotated with words like [LIES!] seems to suggest that piece is also shoddy journalism. Tim you are listed as one of the writers of it?

    • Bishop Brightly

      I can try to clear it up. I was one of the writers of the Telegraph piece. My involvement was solely limited to the detective’s version of events given to me. The rest came from the Telegraph’s own journalists and you would need to ask them about that.

      The annotation you refer to came from someone calling himself Justin Sanity on this blog (he has declined, when asked on here, to reveal his identity).

      He made claims about the detective’s version of events which are completely at odds with what the detective told me. More worrying was his assertion that the detective was recycling Chris Fay’s conspiracy theory. Since, to my certain knowledge, the detective viewed Mr Fay as dangerously unreliable this is plain wrong.

      Was the detective telling me the truth ? I have no reason to doubt his word (and indeed he had told others much the same as he told me). That said, there is a simple way for the truth to be established: as I and others have suggested over the past week, the Home Affairs Select Committee needs to call the detective (whose identity it must know) and the customs officer to give evidence before it. Similarly, HASC needs to demand all Fernbridge reports relating to Leon Brittan. These should include both the customs officer’s statement and what the US Marshall told Fernbridge after visiting the alleged victim in the United States.

      On the wider issue of shoddy reporting: I have been a working journalist for 37 years, much of them as what is loosely described as an investigative journalist. It was drummed into me from an early stage that to publish allegations – even anonymous ones – based on one person’s claims and without making any serious attempt to establish the likely veracity thereof is simply shoddy and irresponsible journalism.

      This is not, in any way, an attempt to limit freedom of speech and/or the press. But the limits of that freedom are best summed up by the old analogy that such freedom does not confer the right to run into a crowded cinema and shout ‘fire’ without having first taken at least basic steps to determine whether anything is ablaze.

      The history of child sexual abuse as a public debate has, for more than 25 years, been one of sensational and unchecked claims (from both those who claim it to be rife and those who dismiss it as over-reported) followed by a backlash in which the very real problem, and the efforts of those professionals trying to address it, are hindered. The result is not good for the victims.

      I hope this helps.

  30. GMB

    It may be worth asking the DI if he knew of the visits and abuse of Leon and Tommy to an Inner London run children’s home located in Wandsworth (not run by that LGA). He should also be asked the same question about an ILEA (Mal) school linked to the above. The Met knew as the victims went to a specialised police unit – we believe you but their is nothing we can do… How do I know this? Last year I was put in touch with a representative of the abused by two local authority councillors. What that representative told me was about the abuse of multiple victims of Leon, Tommy and a named PO. This detail was subsequently repeated by the same representative and another supportive person to me and two other people I had taken along at their Council Offices. I have not given any precise detail to the Police but have enabled action by another route. I did write to an on going Met Operation in November 2014 (no acknowledgement yet been received despite a request for one) and explained to them the above in passing in vague terms see extract below – unlike the other detail I gave to them.
    ‘I am not in a position to divulged the other abuse etc carried out at a Wandsworth carehome, an ILEA special school and by PO’s. My role in that was to put together the support people helping the victims and a responsible news outlet…’
    I understand moves have been made for this to be taken to the next stage.

  31. tdf

    If the lists are a myth or an outright scam then it must have been a clever one as unless I am mistaken it includes names of people that were subsequently convicted for abuse in entirely unrelated circumstances.

    What is crucial is the timing of when these lists were drawn up. Whether we will ever get an answer to that is unclear. I think at minimum someone should go through these lists having regard to the likely timing of drawing up of the lists look and look at whether
    (1) any names were of persons definitely prosecuted and/or convicted in other cases
    (2) names of persons who were never prosecuted but about whom there are suspicions from reliable sources, in this category would be included the recently deceased cabinet minister and Cyril Smith. In the latter case, there seems little doubt as to his guilt even though his offenses were according to some not as serious as those laid at the door of the cabinet minister.

  32. Sabre

    Some if not most of us knew at the outset that this quest was destined to hit the buffers. I have consistently been pessimistic, although I confess I was relishing the thought of being proved wrong.

  33. Isis

    Mark Williams-Thomas said LB was investigated for a sex assault at Elm on a US man as a 10 year old who refused to sign a Statement because he came under pressure not to do so. If he had signed the Statement, that together with supporting evidence from the raid would have lead to an interview under caution for LB.

    It seems to me that the US victim was the kind of test-case victim that police believed they could build a case around – he could perhaps be placed at Elm; he may have made contemporaneous statements to police/professionals. He’s now a businessman presumably without addiction issues/criminal record, someone for whom compensation would not be an inducement – someone whose evidence a jury might prefer over that of the former Home Secretary and if successful, weaker claims might follow.

    MWT has thereby accepted the challenge by Brittan’s friends to put up or shut up. He relies on the unsigned victim statement. He said police have no photo evidence of LB attending any such premises. (He mentioned evidence from the raid, I would guess he means something like a guest book/telephone book.)

    Journalists rely on hearsay evidence from Chris Fay who has compiled testimony from Grafton House boys and Carol Kasir. We might know nothing if it wasn’t for Chris Fay but just like Police and Court, we can be sure of nothing without original testimony.

  34. GMB

    Good advice from PC gojam. Why would the ‘Irving’ crowd want a copy of the original recording when they have a ‘copy’ already – see the needles TS’s and comments of last year. Lets hope they do have a copy and one of the original, if so put it up. My original copy has been heard commented on by several MPs and leading broadcasters from two networks. They all confirmed Mr S. names Leon Brittan as featuring in a video with a boy. Mr S. declined to say what Brittan was doing but I’ll bet it was not a kids party at MacDonalds.

  35. GMB

    You have been repeatedly asked to cut and paste the section of the transcript which you claim shows that Solanki named Brittan as featuring in a video with a boy.

    You have consistently failed to do so.

    Now put up. Or shut up.

  36. GMB

    Why here? You can use gojams copy if he has produced one or what about gojams transcripts, remember he did have quite a few goes last year, three corrected TS’s on one day if my memeory serves me well – don’t you trust them? I would’nt. Copy and paste to youuu why? when I have alreadly copied both to 20 people on Sat 24 January 2015. As I said earlier the feedback from persons without any bias is clear, Leon Brittan is clearly identified by Mr Solanki as being in a video tape seized by HMC&E. I know this will wind-up a few people but would anybody really expect me to accomodate anyone who will scream and scream until they are sick?

  37. GMB

    As I expected. You will not do this because you know that the transcript does not contain the allegation you have made.

    The actions of people like you – making wild and unsubstantiated claims – obscure what solid facts there are.

    When other posters wonder why the mainstream media don’t pick up on the story you have put forward, they should understand that the reason is simple: you cannot – and continue to refuse to – adduce the evidence for your allegations.

    As to your claims about MPs and broadcasters accepting your version of events: I’m happy to tell you that the one MP who I work with dismisses it as nonsense, as do the journalists from BBC, Sky and ITN with whom I also work.

    Simply put, you’re a prat.

  38. Interesting.
    I meant no disparagement of Mr Tim Tate or the article he contributed to – my hostility was directed at his source and the story he told to Mr Tate.
    It is important to note that inthis Express article, Mark Williams-Thomas relates a version of events that contradicts what the detective said to Tim Tate. The detective told Mr Tate, that a visiting American detective was asked to look up “the child victim” upon his return to the US, that the American did this, and related to the British detective that “the child victim” had given a full accounting of his victimization and “named the politician”.

    In the following Express article:
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554152/Leon-Brittan-paedophile-party-claims

    Mark Williams-Thomas claims that British detectives contacted a local Sheriff (!!) and that this Sheriff and “local police” relayed that “the child victim” had given a full accounting of his victimization and “named the politician”. These stories contradict each other, making both of them suspect in my eyes.

    I’m wondering how Op. Fernbridge and other historic inquiries beefed up their manpower for investigations. Is it legal, in the UK, for them to employ private investigations operatives for this purpose? I can tell you, that the necessity for increased manpower to investigate child sexual abuse images & child prostitution rackets in the US, circa the late 1970’s, was solved in Los Angeles by the hiring of private intelligence operatives associated with Lydon Larouche. Among the many FALSE assertions made by these private operatives, was that victims of the serial killers Patrick Kearney and Randy Kraft were actually victims of a child sacrificing satanic cult – which never existed. I’m wondering where the detective who was Tate’s source, got HIS info from? Perhaps from a subordinate who might be the real source of the story?

    • Justin, I’d not heard anything about a US investigator and I have no idea where that came from. I don’t want to go into the details of what I had heard but I think it is always wise to remember that it is not the police’s job to keep journalists and bloggers fully informed. Their job is to catch criminals and they have an obligation to protect witnesses and victims. I think it is also wise to remember that journalists and bloggers generally try also to protect witnesses, victims, and sources and this I feel is at the heart of many misunderstandings as they try to inform without giving away sensitive information.

  39. Sabre

    The last response was to Samy? Who seems to have disappeared !

    I probably posted in wrong place.

  40. Terry B

    Just to clarify. is it your opinion that the allegations concerning Elm Guest House in general are myth or just those that relate to Leon Brittan?