Is This The Last Word On Elm Guest House ?

elm-guest-house-1

I’ve come to dread media stories about Elm Guest House and stopped blogging about them a while ago. Myth is layered on top of legend, and legend on top of rumour and speculation. Few stories do what a newspaper story is supposed to do, and that is inform.

This story in The Daily Mail is not in the same category. – HERE 

Stephen Wright and Richard Pendlebury should be commended, not least for protecting the victim’s identity while still giving a fair and informative account of what happened, that isn’t as easy as people might think.

There are one or two minor issues which I would question but even if they were wrong, and I don’t know that they are, they would not detract from the broad narrative that has been laid out, they are, as I said, minor.

There would appear to be key new sources which have given significant new detail. A social worker present at the police interview and at least one police officer involved in the raid. I have no way of verifying or contradicting these sources at this time but I have sent a couple of emails to very reliable contacts I have who’ll know but I have no reason to believe the story is incorrect, I’m just checking.

[Update, my first contact, a former social worker connected to events at the time, has replied to me and broadly supported the Daily Mail account.]

Stephen Wright and Richard Pendlebury have also avoided the error that other journalists have made and not sought to weave existing sensationalist myth into the story that they have. Frankly, the story that they have doesn’t need embellishment but I think it is just as important to note what has not been written as it is to take notice of what has been written.

Finally, to answer the question written in the title, ‘Is this the last word on Elm Guest House’ ?

Probably not, though Stephen Wright and Richard Pendlebury have supplied what looks like the first near complete narrative. It is in the nature of ‘legal restrictions’ that they pass with time, there are also other related Elm Guest House issues that will be looked at,  and of course the myth will go on, continually embellished with rumour and speculation online.

I just hope that people don’t lose sight of the fact that at the very centre of this story is the sexual abuse of a young boy.

Nevertheless, one of those present at Elm Guest House that day was the young boy. He was removed from the premises and interviewed by detectives in the presence of a social worker at nearby Richmond police station. His initial testimony was truly shocking.

He said that a man at the guest house had explained to him about how homosexual men did ‘tricks’ with each other. Afterwards, the man raped the boy in a bedroom. This was the first time the child had been sexually abused in this way.

A few weeks later, the boy was again at the guest house when Kasir told him that other men could do ‘tricks’ with him, for which he would get paid. The boy told her that he didn’t want to do it, but Kasir, he said, told him the money was too good to turn down.

The boy said that afterwards, a ‘foreign’ man who was staying at the guest house came into a room in which the boy was asleep, woke him and got undressed.

The boy said he told the man that he didn’t want to do anything and he should get his money back from Kasir. The man said nothing and, despite the boy’s struggles, committed a serious sexual assault on him.

When the man had gone, Kasir came in and spoke to the child as if nothing had happened.

He claimed that some days later, in the same room, another man undressed and brutally raped the boy for about an hour. The boy remembered that it hurt a lot.

The following morning he saw the man with Kasir, and the adults both remarked quite casually that he looked in physical discomfort. The man even said he hoped he was all right.

Much More at The Daily Mail

 

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26 Comments

Filed under Abuse, News, Politics

26 responses to “Is This The Last Word On Elm Guest House ?

  1. Pingback: Is This The Last Word On Elm Guest House ? | Alternative News Network

  2. Whatever the truth of the exchanges its good to see the real character of Carole kasir is finally in the open. She has been defended as a patsy for far too long. The gay press from the time should be hanging their heads in shame at not seeing what was right in front of them, and even advertised on the door of elm house – Spartacus paedophiles.

  3. Sorry, I simply don;t buy the part about, “Kasir hugged him and the set the alarm off triggering the raid early”…You don;t hug people with a cast on their arm,without making sure you make a special point of avoiding the cast, it looks like Kasir had been tipped off and they left the one “kid” they knew they could buy off in the house to give the impression things were “normal”..There is also one notorious contemporary “pick up spot” that so far, has not rated one single mention by anyone from the likes of Icke to the MSM.

    • Sabre

      Agreed, that raid had to go tits up. Cock up not a conspiracy we are assured, the story made it quite clear that SB and by implication 5 would have been concerned. National Security harrumph, Cold War hurrumpth, Soviets harrumph.

      • Sabre

        @Gojam
        Your position is of course appreciated and understood.

      • colin

        Soviets may have already known about this due to a Mr a blunt don’t forget what he was one of the Cambridge 5

      • Sabre

        @Colin,
        If Blunt was an habitué of EGH SB would definitely have known all there was to know, the average punter assumes Blunt was discovered to be a spy and that was that, Blunt was subject to continuous ongoing debrief by the Security Services, It appears that despite decades of interviews the Security Services took the view that he had failed to live up to his end of the bargain i.e. Full and frank disclosure.
        If the Sinn Fein member had been an habitué of EGH then SB would definitely have been aware of EGH.
        If Colin Jordan had been an habitué then SB would have been on the case given Jordan’s previous leadership of the National Socialist movement, holocaust denial and continuing links with US, European and British Far Right organisations.
        One could be forgiven for thinking that it was control central for everything from communism and Irish Republicanism on one extreme to Fascism on the other with the LibLabCon consensus in the middle.

    • I don’t buy it either and kasir allegedly told Mary moss she was tipped off.

      What is the other unmentioned place then?

  4. Sabre

    The Mail seem to be following the trade practice of publishing pictures of people they can’t name for legal reasons, the pictures do of course have to have credible alternative contexts😉

  5. Not sure I get ‘the myth of EGH’. It seems pretty clear from stories published on this that EGH was where politicians, judges and other powerful men went to and abused in brutal ways children. It also seems pretty clear that the police etc were involved in covering it up. Also seems pretty clear that even now they are trying to keep a lid on it. I think most people who are aware of EGH know these facts about it.

    Not sure what myths you refer to unless you mean the myth that the police signal went off early due to Kasir hugging him. that sure sounds like a myth.

  6. GMB

    I was told last week that the EGH photos were seized by Special Branch in 1990 and latterly destroyed after instructions came down from the political level. This was done as the photos were so damning and ‘Plod did what Plod was told to do.’ I asked if 5 had murdered Carole Kasir. The reply was not what I expected. Source said (and I do this from memory) in normal circumstances no but bearing in mind what was at stake ‘I cannot rule it out’. We (6) did but 5 did not normally to do that but what we had at the Elm Guest House was extraordinary. Even we (6) would have destoyed those photos amd believe me we would have normally kept such photos, especially photos of British MP’s but they were so damaging they had to be destroyed.

  7. The “myth”, as I understand it, involves things like the supposed existence of Polaroids and/or video tapes of a cabinet minister sitting in a pinny in the sauna with a naked boy on his lap, or like Jimmy Savile’s supposed regular visits to the guest house, or like the Sidney Cooke gang’s supposed involvement in trafficking the children who were abused there, or like the supposed carrying of Vishal Mehrotra across the EGH threshold, never to be seen alive again. All these things are, of course, theoretically within the realm of possibility, but the practical evidence that has been presented so far, not even to show that they definitely did happen but simply could conceivably have happened, is at best scant and at worst pure conjecture.

    There has been an escalation over the last couple of months to move on from the systematic sexual abuse of children by a group of people with sufficient establishment connections to have their crimes covered up, and ramp the crimes up to an even worse level, now with tales of murders watched by gleeful politicians added into the mix, as if the facts already established, as laid out in the Mail’s story, were somehow not horrendous and sickening enough. That trend worries me, because I fear that the next ramp-up may involve claims of goats’ heads impaled on the guest-house gate, while the entire Cabinet lurked inside, intoning strange chants while dressed in red satin robes emblazoned with upside-down pentagrams and Masonic aprons. If we reach that point, then getting to the real, provable-in-a-court-of-law truth of this whole terrible story is going to be practically impossible, not only for the official inquiry but also for investigative journalists.

    Even as it stands, the “myth” is already frustratingly fuzzy and self-contradictory – whether by accident or design is hard to tell. Only by sticking to the established facts and focusing on allegations that can credibly be corroborated – and more of those will eventually come out, I’m sure – will we have any chance of this whole horror ever being properly understood and, even more important, never allowed to happen again.

    • so the ‘myths’ that makes it all fuzzy and contradictory for you are

      Pictures and videos, some showing cabinet minister in a pinny.

      Saville might have visited EGH

      Sidney might have supplied children

      Vishal might have been killed there.

      Whether the above are true or not in no way do they weaken or confuse the main story about EGH. Politicians and other powerful people were involved, and cops helped cover it up and maybe took part in the abuse. I could be wrong, but only those with a limited intelligence would find other information floating around about EGH confusing to the point they fail to understand the main and quite clear plot line.

      • I don’t see it that way at all. If inaccurate allegations turn out to be unfounded, reasonably doubt can – and I have no doubt will – be cast on ones that are actually true. It’s the crying-wolf syndrome.

      • reasonable doubt where? I assume you mean in a courtroom or you mean in public. even if it was proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Sidney for example did not supply children to EGH, I fail to see how that could undermine the main story. Same with pictures or video. again I am not even sure how you could prove they never existed. or that Sidney never sold boys to EGH, and so on.

  8. Mick

    Find ’em, hang ’em, burn ’em. In public.

  9. Quiet Kevin

    What really stood out for me in The Mail’s story was the suggestion that “the cover-up” was somehow motivated by national security interests i.e. to prevent the situation being exploited somehow by the Soviets.

    This seems like nonsense to me. Whilst we can’t presently know exactly what people were thinking in 1982 there are other contemporaneous scandals that, whilst not as shocking as EGH, could be used by the KGB as blackmail material and were not covered up. See for example Cecil Parkinson’s affair and resultant child with his secretary.

    Apart from that a small amount of clever editorialising in the article and the repeated asserting that the Daily Mail has somehow led the way on this subject (seriously?) makes me think that they think something big is about to happen and they want to be seen on the right side before it happens and have their position ready when it does.

    • Sabre

      Arse covering and pre emptive positioning by The Daily Mail. You obviously know bullshit when you smell it.

  10. dpack

    in many ways the mail seem to have suggested a plausible set of events and avoided as much confusion as they could.

    being rather cynical i wonder why ? perhaps it is more than arse covering for their past use of the nelson eye ,it might be some big sheep are required to feed the wolves rather than let the pack kill and eat or bury the whole flock,i spose old or frozen mutton is fairly low value .
    i hope those who might be “old mutton” consider that thought and maybe a few turn “supergrass”in the hope of some sort of mitigation .

    kasir’s death seems odd but as suggested in gmb’s post odd things can happen in odd and important circumstances and considering the criteria for murder being a good option in other matters ,or the least awful one, foul play in her death seems probable .

    that evidence relating to egh has been removed,altered or falsified seems likely .

    a lot of smoke and mirrors has been and is being deployed in relation to egh and other matters.
    in some ways that is useful as it confirms there is something is important enough to hide.

    ps there is little internal logic to the idea that a cover up was to hide the situation from moscow, a cover up to hide it from the uk citizens and protect domestic assets seems very likely .

    it is rather difficult to sort the facts from the illusions created to hide the facts and im rather surprised that this mail piece seems to stick with what seems probable and has few statements that seem very improbable .

  11. I agree with Gojam – very responsible coverage of this tragic story. Responsible coverage does not generate a rebound of doubt about the truth of victim claimant’s stories, contrasted by irresponsible coverage which does – see here:
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/opinion/randazza-uva-rape-allegations/index.html
    “Should we always believe the victim?
    By Marc Randazza
    updated 8:46 PM EST, Fri December 5, 2014”

    Tricia said: “Politicians and other powerful people were involved, and cops helped cover it up and maybe took part in the abuse”. Actually, “cops helped cover it up and maybe took part in the abuse” is another of the myths, and one that really only makes sense if the narrative is infected by other myths like this: “Pictures and videos, some showing cabinet minister in a pinny. Saville might have visited EGH Sidney might have supplied children
    Vishal might have been killed there” and this: “the cover-up” was somehow motivated by national security interests i.e. to prevent the situation being exploited somehow by the Soviets”.

    The police DID raid the place, they did make arrests and there was some level of prosecution. The idea that those police deliberately “messed it up” to avoid the full truth coming out is NOT A FACT but simply an opinion, and therefore another part of the mythology.

    • Sabre

      Justin, in your last sentence you mention “The Police”, bear in mind that the local police may well have mounted a raid in utmost good faith and for the best of reasons e.g local intelligence re child welfare and breaches of the law regarding “disorderly houses” this explains the raid.

      Special Branch may well have had better more comprehensive intelligence, alternatively, events on the ground may well have triggered SB interest into a hurried damage limitation exercise.

      SB have access to all police intelligence, however, intelligence from SB to local police is entirely at the discretion of SB on a strictly “need to know” basis.

      So it is entirely possible that local police mounted a raid unaware that they were “in the way” of SB, SB then arrange to blow the raid or failing that jump straight in at the local nick and tidy up as much as possible given the facts on the ground.

      Theory, opinion, Not Facts ( not established anyway), mythology :- The facts are owned by those that have created a pressing need for The Inquiry that will go nowhere if and when it ever gets started. Had the facts been left to emerge unadulterated as and when they came into existence we wouldn’t be pressing for Inquiries covering every part of the country and every branch of the Establisment for half a century, would we?

      • @Sabre – I can’t say that interference “after the fact” by SB is not a possibility, but there are many other possibilities. It’s possible that omitting mention of a prominent name from the child’s account of his experience was intended to make the boy’s story MORE actionable and less likely to be rejected by CPS, you know.

        But when you say this: “Had the facts been left to emerge unadulterated as and when they came into existence…” – well, has that ever been a possibility in the UK? There have always vested interests with a range of agendas, inside and outside of government, spinning, embellishing, twisting, confusing “the facts” of any scandal or potential scandal. The UK press has been infamous throughout the world for playing to these agendas, for my entire life!

  12. tdf

    My 2c, in marketspeak, Rusbridger’s a sell, Dacre’s a buy, Murdoch’s a hold.

    Say if you were a whistleblower on establishment CSA, and you decided to go to MSM, where would you go? I know where I’d go. And it wouldn’t be to the one that poses as transparent, telling truth to power, and all that sloganeering bilge.

    • Sabre

      Like the market allusion, disagree with the market analysis.
      Sell ! Sell ! Sell !

      Look to diversified emerging markets, Blogs regardless of their political affiliations. Websites, Forums (Fora ) , Social Media.
      No exclusives, hit everywhere in the hope of evading gatekeepers.