Operation Fernbridge: Carole Kasir, A Liar ?

Vindictive Liar ?

Vindictive Liar ?

Over the last year I’ve had contact  with a number of confidential sources who have helped me to form a better understanding of the kind of person Carole Kasir was.

My view, at this time, is that she was a selfish, vindictive, manipulative liar, and an alcoholic.

If Chris Fay and I disagree it is not that she lied to him, which he accepts, but how much she lied to him.

Following the raid on the Elm Guest House in June 1982, Carole’s son was taken into care and placed in Grafton Close children’s home and the evidence appears to show that eight years later Carole Kasir approached NAYPIC with a view to maligning those people responsible for taking her son into care.

I know of two clear examples where she did this. Examples where two men Carole Kasir accused of child abuse at Elm Guest House couldn’t have plausibly done so, two men who were involved in the care of her son. Both of these men have been described to me by those that have met them as decent, honourable, child welfare professionals, both now retired, who had spent their working life protecting children from abuse and who were certainly not responsible for it.

Given these clear examples where Carole Kasir has been shown to have lied, is it reasonable, in the absence of any corroborating evidence, to assume that in every other case she told the truth ?

I’m not suggesting that everyone she named is innocent, only that Carole Kasir is not a credible source and that without corroborative evidence it would be extremely foolish to suggest that all men that she named were child abusers.

That does not mean that the ‘Mary Moss Documents’ do not contain interesting evidence and information which raises important questions.

1) Why do Elm Guest House room-bookings refer to ‘children’ ?

Capture

2) What was the exact nature of the involvement of Spartacus at Elm Guest House ?

spartacus

3) What was the exact reason for the raid on Elm Guest House ?

These questions stand outside of Carole Kasir’s testimony and are still valid in my view.

Note 1: This post does not allude to any person who is currently awaiting trial.

Note 2: The view that is expressed here has been formed as a direct result of six different, independent confidential sources all with very different perspectives on this subject.

Note 3:  Some posts were removed from this blog because I felt that they either may prejudice a future trial or because I felt that they might mislead readers.

Note 4: I have never been pressured by anyone to remove any post.

Note 5: This is the limit of what I wish to publish on this subject at this stage.

If you have information connected to Operations Fairbank or Fernbridge you can call them direct on 0207 161 0500.

Or you can contact NAPAC on 0800 085 3330 free from landlines, 3, EE, Vodafone and Virgin mobile phones or 0808 801 0331 free from O2, EE and Vodafone mobile phones.

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27 Comments

Filed under Abuse, Fernbridge, News

27 responses to “Operation Fernbridge: Carole Kasir, A Liar ?

  1. steve

    good fair comment have to say,why did she first lie? this just causes problems for the others like myself,as in the future we are deemed to be lying

  2. Paul Foot certainly regarded Elm Guest House as a distraction from what was in his view the real scandal of Kincora.

  3. nuggy

    ive no doubt that abuse happend there but that all these famous names were involved i have a lot of doubt.

    the fact richond concel payed certan people hush money means something must of have happend.

  4. Claire

    Children were abused at Elm Guest House.

    Thank you for your personal opinions on this matter as an owner of a blog.

    Extracts from just one of the victims…

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-victim-of-elm-guest-house-1572073
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2274703/Revealed-Face-boy-abused-Elm-House-scandal-Catholic-priest-head-boys-home-arrested.html

    “Dave was 13 when minibus outings to the Elm eight miles
    away began.”..

    “The former care home orphan says he and his 12-year-old
    brother were sent by staff to the Elm Guest House for
    “a treat””…

    “Finally they were forced to take part in vile sex acts after
    phoney games of hide-and-seek.”..

    “The victim, now a family man, broke down in tears as he
    told the Sunday People of his nightmare at the Elm
    – and how his tormented brother killed himself a decade
    after leaving care.”..

    “No one was listening to us. It’s taken 30 years for anyone
    to listen.”

    One or two lies (which I passionately disagree are lies anyway, by the way) does not put that into question. That is called discreditation and denialism.

    I do not believe all those articles had to be removed because of potentially prejudicing a trial. They are in the public domain, already, also, on many other sites and blogs right across the web. They have spread like wildfire.

    We are still also waiting to hear from Exaro and Fernbridge on the later Colin Peters trial with recorded victims, evidence which may very well help with this investigation. Also, on the Amsterdam connection – though I expect this will fail to draw on Elm Guest House also. The silence is deafening, and sickening.

    (By the way, did Chris believe Carole was lying before he met the Needle team? Genuine question, would like an answer please.) (NB Mary Moss believes the content, but that is by the by as there are victims.)

    ”Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else’s opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”

    Thankfully, many can form informed opinions of their own.

  5. ex-officer

    People may be right about Mrs Kasir no one will ever know if she lied about individuals. There are other sources who are beyond any reproach (no they are not dead). So let us all wait for the evidence and facts etc to come out in the following months from those people.

    • Claire

      Agreed. I have to wonder about the purpose of such posts though on here claiming she is a ‘selfish vindictive manipulative liar’ and therefore not to be trusted as a ‘credible source’. I will like, you said, wait for the survivors and evidence to be forthcoming (in an ideal world – because let us face it – it is an uphill struggle against the most powerful people who have abused positions of responsibility and trust in the most horrific ways imaginable). Unfortunately, this type of post, just makes it all the harder for such survivors achieving this.

      • I thought you were going to set up your own blog ?

        The difference between you and I is that I’m interested in the truth, while your just interested in selecting information which corroborates your grand conspiracy theory.

      • green

        Survivors’ testimony to police/courts far outweighs anything onlookers might post online and, unless the world has turned upside down, it seems unlikely that survivors look to online postings for permission to report their abuse to the police. All the above post does is spoil things for onlookers who get their fun from speculating about possible child abuse by VIPs – as if that kind of abuse was somehow worse or more important than any other kind. If they have any sympathy for victims at all, they should realise that stoking speculation based on shaky evidence and unquestioningly accepting all information that supports their version of the truth could utimately increase scepticism by the powers that be about any kind of child abuse and make it even more difficult for victims to be heard and get the justice they deserve.

    • ex-officer

      Let us not forget that is was Carole Kasir who named Cyril Smith MP as a guest at 27/Elm GH. She was the first. Even the Police confirmed that fact on Dispatches. Enough said.

  6. Claire

    I beg your pardon Gojam? I dnt see how personal slants are worthy of discussion. I shall not dignify that with another response. I have only ever been interested in the truth. i suspect I may be the next to enjoy your discreditation now.

    • There is no need for me to discredit you, you’re doing a good job of it on your own.

      • Claire

        So the people you asked from said ‘conspiracy site’ to edit your blog, and whom form part of OpGreenlight now, and from where you obtained many articles for your blog, are now defunct and mere ‘conspiracists’? Hollow, hypocritical, and ironic springs to mind.

        And I really do not think supporting vicitms of abuse is being a ‘conspiracist’. If it does to you, it suggests much about your stance on things.

      • I thought you weren’t going to dignify this blog with another response?

        Self-obsessed and deluded springs to my mind.

  7. Claire

    I felt compelled to point out the fatuousness of your empty argument. I hope the victims and survivors of Elm Guest House gain justice. We believe you.

  8. gw

    Glad to see this posted. The idea that Carole was some innocent patsy is, to me, bs. Sceptism must be applyed – not just to the “official” story but other accounts aswell. As soon as I read that her children had been taken into care alarm bells started ringing. One only has to look at the “justice for kevin bayliss” or whatever to see what an unhinged person will fabricate after social service intervention.

    This is the key bit imo:

    “I’m not suggesting that everyone she named is innocent, only that Carole Kasir is not a credible source and that without corroborative evidence it would be extremely foolish to suggest that all men that she named were child abusers.”

    regardless the whole think stinks. People going to trial and hopefully some secure convictions is only half the battle.

  9. Sabre

    A distinctly icy atmosphere has set in methinks.

  10. Sabre

    @ Gojam
    The articles on politics and financial chicanery, intimately interlinked in my humble opinion, are what first drew me here.
    The institutional child abuse is, I believe, also linked to the aforementioned .
    The blog seems to tolerate views so diverse that , in the absence of schizophrenia, you can’t possibly agree with them all. I am surprised at your ad hominem re some earlier posters.

  11. Sabre

    The above is support of argument generally and not the particular argument.

  12. gw

    I hope people don’t distrust exaro there are reasons why things cannot be published asap (just look at how long it took wikileaks to get thier stuff up). I think progress is being made, slowly

    • ex-officer

      Bang on gw. We all must be patient. Yes there are docs at present that would create a scandal but lets wait for the icing on the cake. It is being mixed at the moment. We have all tried bits and pieces but they are easily dealt with in isolation. What WILL happen is such a torrent of evidence, testimonies and documents when presented after the trial the concealers will be silenced for good

      • Anon

        What trial? There is no trial.

      • Liz727

        ex-officer, I have been one of many on twitter trying to keep this in the spotlight since the #Savile documentary last Oct, through #PaedoBritain Day in March, right up to 5 mins ago tweeting the latest from Exaro on #elmguesthouse. After a year of what has, at times, seemed like wading through mud, I was beginning to lose heart this would ever be resolved. You’ve restored my faith today. Thank you so much.

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  14. Liz727

    gojam, although I cringe to read anything that would let the Powers That Be somehow, yet again, cover up the decades-long atrocity of child abuse in our country, I agree with your writing this article and thank you for it. To let any one person jeopardise the (God willing) soon-to-be exposé of all of this at long last would be wrong. We must keep our standards high and beyond reproach and exposing wrongdoing wherever it’s found does just that.

  15. Once again, an informed, well-thought-out and reasoned article. Yes, any hint that a source of information may have lied should, and does, cast doubt on anything else that that source may have said. This has to be taken into account in evaluating any of her other statements, but it does not automatically mean that everything she said is now to be disbelieved.

    What I find more worrying is the fact that Carole’s son was taken into care in the same children’s home as was providing the children to allegedly be abused. Was this not a warning to her to keep quiet? Maybe the allegations that she made were wrong, and were made out of emotion, rather than reason, but a selfish vindictive, manipulative person would hardly waste their time collecting “evidence”, perhaps as a form of insurance, which had no credibility. What would be the point? Unless she was completely unhinged…in which case why bother to murder her? (Allegedly).

    The open questions raised by the article are the most important point. The whole situation is just too large and important to be undermined by 1 alleged witness’ credibility, or lack of it. In any case, from a purely practical point of view, she is not alive to give testimony, and anybody else doing so on her behalf would be regarded as stating hearsay.

    Any trial will not hinge on Carole’s notes and “evidence”; what is important about it is that it gives the police a unique source of information on this particular establishment.

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