Paedophile MP Cyril Smith: Questions for Jenny Tonge and Tim Razzall

Tim Razzall Amnesia Pic courtesy Liberal Democrats

The Met Police’s official acknowledgement to Channel Four’s Dispatches programme that Cyril Smith visited the notorious Elm House guest house in Barnes in south-west London – which is alleged to be used by paedophiles raises serious questions for the Liberal Democrats.
So far attention has been centred on former Liberal leaders, David Steel. Nick Clegg and Sir Menzies Campbell,the latter who was shown (possibly unfairly) to be heaping praise on Cyril Smith at his funeral.
But the real Liberal Democrats who should be quizzed are Baroness Tonge, Lord Razzall and Sir David Williams on the scandalous affair that allowed Cyril Smith to sexually assault young boys.
They were the Liberal members of Richmond Council in the aftermath of highly publicised police raid on Elm Guest House and responsible – along with the previous Tory administration – for the safe keeping of children in the council’s Grafton Close children’s home.

David Henke 13/09/13


Filed under Abuse, Fernbridge, News

28 responses to “Paedophile MP Cyril Smith: Questions for Jenny Tonge and Tim Razzall

  1. Pingback: Elm Guest House: Vigil, September 15th, 2014, and Links to Newspaper Reports | Desiring Progress

  2. Pingback: Paedophile MP Cyril Smith: Questions for Jenny Tonge and Tim Razzall | justiceforkevinandjenveybaylis

  3. “Mrs Renée Short (Wolverhampton North East)
    “Is the Minister aware of the serious position now obtaining, in that there are twice the number of children in institutions of different sorts as there are adult prisoners? Does he realise that tranquillisers are being used to control children in some of the institutions and homes? Does he accept that the rehabilitation record of borstals and detention centres is not exactly high?”


  4. ps – for those with information, then do come forward. Either to the police or to the media organisations, such as Exaro, that will treat you seriously and protect you.

    Not in Stafford they wont.

  5. I had a visit from DS Dawn Franks on Friday, (I had written to DC Phil Ruskin of Lancashire Police, and I don’t know if he even got to see my letter, and it was sent to Stafford Police even though I had written Confidential at the top which should have meant only DC Phil Ruskin got it, obviously that didnt happen as it was passed to Stafford Police who have covered up the Pindown abuse and persecution of the victims, anyway she wanted me to sign a note in her book saying that I wanted the police to stop investigating Pindown, but I wrote in her book that I want to police to carry on investigating Pindown. She also told me she didnt know anything about the Dispatches Cyril Smith program, and I find that incredible, because you would think that all the police involved in child protection would have been briefed with that program, obviously at Stafford they haven’t been, why not?

    • bobchewie

      @zoompad i posted that because of the fact that leon brittan was home sec at the time..and what with him being on the EGH list and all…i will look for more stuff about kids in care and see what else he had to say..makes you wonder what the heck was going on in his dept if he was dealing with all that

  6. bobchewie

    more irony from ‘dr tonge (baroness tonge)

    Written Answers — Health: Child Protection Register (8 January 2004)
    Dr Jenny Tonge: To ask the Secretary of State for Health, how many children on the Child Protection Register have not yet been allocated a social worker.

    Written Answers — Health: Social Workers (8 January 2004)
    Dr Jenny Tonge: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what action he is taking to increase the number of social workers with a child protection background.

  7. bobchewie

    ironic stuff from hansard.

    Oral Answers to Questions — Home Department: Juvenile Offenders (28 February 1980)
    Mrs Renée Short (Wolverhampton North East)
    “Is the Minister aware of the serious position now obtaining, in that there are twice the number of children in institutions of different sorts as there are adult prisoners? Does he realise that tranquillisers are being used to control children in some of the institutions and homes? Does he accept that the rehabilitation record of borstals and detention centres is not exactly high?

    Why is not the Minister acting on the report of the Select Committee on Expenditure on the working of the Children and Young Persons Act 1969, and caring for very many more children in community and foster homes? Will he take that on board and ensure that reasonable rates are given to foster parents?”

    Mr Leon Brittan (Cleveland and Whitby)
    “I accept the importance of children being treated in the community. I take on board many of the points made by the hon. Lady. I do not accept the general condemnations that seemed to be implied in the first part of the question. They are the sorts of points that we shall take into account in our review of these”

  8. Anon

    “The Dispatches documentary was powerful, but actually contained little that hasn’t already been put in the public domain by either bloggers, websites or, in the case of the police file and MI5 knowledge, the national press (Daily Telegraph 14 November 2012, for example).

    What Liz Mackean did do, undoubtedly, was bring these critical issues to the attention of many TV viewers who were not aware of the scale of abuse by Smith in Rochdale and his links with the Elm Guest House. She deserves a lot of credit for that.

    So the point now should be to heap intense pressure onto the authorities responsible for the cover-up and to push for transparency over Smith’s, and others’ abuse. This cannot happen again – and those who know about abuse by public figures and who have sat on key information for decades should either be ashamed of their complicity, or ready to talk if they were blocked from making this public back then (I understand that some good people were actively prevented from doing the right thing).

    Final mention should go to the survivors of abuse who came forward, and to Chris on here. They have been pushing for decades for an admission like the Met’s belated admission that Smith used the guest house. It is down to the doggedness of such survivors and the likes of Chris that we now have the link between Smith and the EGH. Let’s hope more follow. Well done, Chris. You’ll know that it’s a case of “too little, too late” when it comes to Smith. But let’s hope that action follows on any living abusers…

    ps – for those with information, then do come forward. Either to the police or to the media organisations, such as Exaro, that will treat you seriously and protect you.

    • Mudplugger

      Interesting that ‘Dispatches’ would normally run at 8pm, in prime-time, but this edition was shoved down the schedule to 11:05, ensuring minimal viewer-volume – what a surprise. Wonder who decided to do that ?

  9. bobchewie

    @gojam just came across this…

    Click to access 10-Pedophilia.pdf

    it has the usual suspects mentioned plummer, righton, o carrol,..i think its pro paedo crap…trying to find who wrote this shit..

  10. bobchewie

    @gojam i thought this might get your interest:

    “Former Tory strategist Tom Flanagan apologizes for child porn remarks
    One-time Conservative campaign strategist Tom Flanagan has apologized for suggesting that looking at child pornography is “a question of personal liberty” and shouldn’t be a crime. “I absolutely condemn the sexual abuse of children, including the use of children to produce pornography. These are crimes and should be punished under the law,” Flanagan said in a statement. He said his words were “badly chosen” and apologized “unreservedly to all who were offended by my statement, and most especially to victims of sexual abuse and their families.” […]

    [Flanagan] made the remarks while speaking to students at the University of Lethbridge Wednesday evening. One of the students asked Flanagan to explain a remark he made in 2009 is which he suggested that looking at child pornography was acceptable. He responded: “A lot of people on my side of the spectrum, the conservative side of the spectrum, have been on kind of a jihad against pornography and child pornography in particular. And I certainly have no sympathy for child molesters. But I do have some grave doubts about putting people in jail because of their taste in pictures.” […] “It is a real issue of personal liberty. To what extent do we put people in jail for doing something for which they do not harm another person?” […] In a bizarre side note, he added that he had been on the mailing list of the national Man Boy Love Association for several years, saying it was a “long story.”

    source: Article ‘Former Tory strategist Tom Flanagan apologizes for child porn remarks’; tory-strategist-tom-flanagan-apologizes- for-child-porn-remarks-1.1175925; CTV News; 28 February 2013

  11. Terry

    During the film I noticed a shot of a piece of paper referring to Smith as ‘DL’ (Deputy Lieutenant). He must have been vetted for this position, surely? Does this suggest he had access to the royal family, as did Savile?

  12. bobchewie

    “For years, hacks and editors at the Rochdale Observer have known about the claims of Cyril’s sexual abuse at Cambridge House- and elsewhere – but the Powers That Be in that great Liberal Institution have helped keep things quiet.

    The founder of Scott Trust (that owns Guardian Media titles) – CP Scott – must be turning in his grave.

    CP Scott by FW Schmidt, 1920

    In today’s All Fools’ Edition of the Rochdale Obscurer, the grubby spanker Cyril Smith spits venom at the closure of the local Rochdale Observer offices as part of the GMG regional titles centralisation to Manchester

    In testicle-squeezing fury, Cyril proclaims the Drake Street closure as:

    “A tragedy, a disgrace and a real blow to Rochdale and destruction of part of its history over the last century”.

    How very telling.

    Cyril Smith- The very man who has bullied Rochdale Observer journalists and editors with abusive phone calls and threats to get them sacked – many times over the past 50 years.

    Cyril Smith- The very man who is well known in Drake Street for orchestrating bizarre letters for the Readers’ Page.

    Cyril Smith- The very man who has greased the cogs of the local Establishment- Rotarians, Freemasons, asbestos company directors and others for his own advantage and petty vanity. At the expense of the lives of his victims and those who blindly trusted him.

    Cyril Smith- The very man who has helped ensure the Rochdale Observer never reported one word of the serious allegations of sexual abuse and financial impropriety that has dogged his political career.

    No wonder Cyril Smith laments the departure of his local Rochdale Observer office.

    This could mean he is losing his strong and infamous grip on Rochdale.


    Cyril’s letter in the Rochdale Observer on April 1st 2009 could also go down in infamy for another reason.

    The Mother of All Freudian Slips !

    On the loss of the Ob office he writes:

    “Norman Scott must be turning in his grave”.


    Is this the same Norman Scott horribly satirized by Peter Cook as “a self-confessed player of the pink oboe”?

    Norman Scott?
    The male model who in the 1970’s accused Jeremy Thorpe, his alleged former lover and Leader of the Liberal Party, of attempted murder. Poor Great Dane Rinka took a bullet for Norman Scott in a scandal that ripped the Liberal Party apart and ended Jeremy Thorpe’s career.

    A young David Steel then took control of the keys to the skeleton closet.
    (The little chap that who defended Cyril Smith for “merely smacking a few bare bottoms”).

    Cyril was central to the Norman Scott/Jeremy Thorpe scandal. The Rochdale MP was Chief Liberal Whip (no pun intended) at the time.

    In old Fleet Street circles Cyril Smith was known, back then, as a prolific leaker.
    30 stones of grossly obese moving and shaking.

    A friend at the Daily Mirror ghost wrote his autobiography “Big Cyril” and he protected his huge hide by keeping on the right side of the Daily Mail, Express and tabloids with a combination of his “cheeky chappie from Lancashire” persona plus illiberal “hanging and flogging” soundbites and the canny, shameless, liberal leaking of documents and confidences.

    Recently released government archives confirm it was Cyril Smith who made the first approaches on behalf of the Liberal Party to help form the Lib Lab pact. He was the ideal choice given that he owed a huge favour to Home Secretary Jim Callaghan following the dropping of the investigation against Cyril of the Cambridge House sex abuse allegations.

    Apparently Special Branch personally picked up the Cyril Smith “paedo” files from Lancashire Police HQ at Preston and sent them to that there London for safe keeping.

    The Scott/Thorpe affair was manna from heaven for a troubled Wilson administration. There is much intrigue about the political shenanighans at the time- it is fair to say that Cyril Smith was very much out of his depth: MI5, “Operation Clockwork Orange” Very British Coups, Heath’s little Helpers and a Paranoid Wilson in the mix was too much for the Northern bully used to being a big fish in a small pond.

    However, in the early day’s of his Parliamentary carrer Chief Whip Cyril Smith was a modest man who thought himself eminently suitable to be the next Liberal Party leader.
    As Chief Whip of a minority party in a not very well hung parliament, Cyril was in a key position as whip-cracking kingmaker. Just what documents were leaked and by and to whom is still shrouded in mystery. Is that why arrogant and unrepentant Cyril Smith remains so confident to this day that he is “protected”? Even Minister of Justice Jack Straw remains somewhat coy
    At the time the Liberal Party Leader desperately needed help from his Chief Whip, Cyril Smith admitted himself to Birch Hill hospital with a dickie tummy. Two weeks of non-specific illness kept him out of the limelight.

    Those with long memories recall that, although lying low, the public telephone was wheeled to Cyril’s NHS bedside and kept there permanently. A huge stack of 2 pence peices were used by the fat Machiavelli as his party crumbled.

    Anyone with an interest in the Scott/Thorpe affair can find lots of books and infomation to quench their curiosity.
    This was certainly not Cyril Smith’s finest hour.

    Sexual abuser, bully, informant, sneak, disloyal, dishonest, criminal?
    Such phrases shouldn’t be for the Court of Public Opinion to decide. For far too long, the doors to that Court were blocked locally by the likes of the Rochdale Observer.

    Natural justice must prevail. Cyril Smith should be held accountable for his past (mis)deeds.

    CP Scott must be turning in his grave.

    “a newspaper is much more than a business as it reflects the influences and life of a whole community”

    Do those fine word include sexually abused young apprentices and asbestos cancer sufferers?

    We wish the Rochdale Observer well in its new Manchester offices – well away from Cyril Smith’s sweaty grasp.”

  13. bobchewie

    “Parents must be fully involved in the process. They must be properly consulted. They must know who is responsible for providing what, and they must be given a real choice in what happens to their children. When there was talk of special schools closing in Rochdale, the first the 1109 parents heard about it was when they read the local newspaper. Parents contacted me and my predecessor, ***Sir Cyril Smith***, asking why they had not been consulted and told what was to happen to their children instead of reading about it in the newspaper. They asked the local education authority to call a public meeting, but the LEA refused. We therefore called a meeting on their behalf and helped to set up the parents action committee in Rochdale, which is still going and does good work lobbying the council, exerting pressure and ensuring that parents are properly consulted, rather than lip service being paid to consultation. Often the experts say, “This is what should happen to your child.” But the parents are the people who really need to be consulted. They deal with their children all the time, not just during school time.”

    Special Educational Needs

    HC Deb 03 July 1992 vol 210 cc1071-137

  14. bobchewie

    The victim, who does not want to be identified, said: “Cyril Smith abused me. It was illegal, it was immoral. I was 17. I was in awe of the man.

    “Smith took me to the House of Commons as a guest. For somebody into politics it was a dream come true but then, of course, Smith took me into his office.”

    After describing how the MP assaulted him, he added: “I just froze. I was in the House of Commons and I think that’s what gives Smith this licence to do it. That’s how he treated people… it stays with me ‘til this day.”

    As we revealed in November last year, police compiled an 80-page dossier of evidence in 1970 in which Smith – then a councillor – was accused of molesting eight boys.

    In a covering note, the senior investigating officer wrote Smith had ‘used his unique position to indulge in a sordid series of indecent episodes with young boys to whom he had a special responsibility’.

    But the case was rejected by the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, which claimed the allegations were ‘completely without corroboration’.

    In last night’s Dispatches programme, former Rochdale councillor Eileen Kershaw said she witnessed a meeting between Smith and the MP for Rochdale at that time, Jack McCann, shortly before the case was dropped.

    She claimed McCann, an influential deputy chief whip and a senior member of the Labour government at the time, told Smith he would discuss the case with the DPP.

    Mrs Kershaw, a councillor from 1964 to 1967 and a close friend of Smith, said: “He said ‘I’m going to go to the DPP and tell them they’ve either to get on and prosecute, because it’s gone on long enough, or they’re to drop it’.”

    She added: “It certainly got Cyril off the hook. Whatever Jack McCann said to the DPP, they listened to him.”

    Smith became MP for Rochdale in 1972 and knighted in 1988 before dying in 2010.

    We revealed how, as long ago as 1969, Lancashire Police were convinced Smith was molesting youngsters at Cambridge House, a hostel for deprived boys opened by the disgraced MP seven years earlier.

    We also told how Smith was alleged to have abused boys at Knowl View , a council-run school for vulnerable youngsters in Rochdale, which closed in 1992 in the wake of separate allegations of sexual and physical abuse.

    Police tried again to refer a file about him to prosecutors in 1998, while investigating abuse in children’s homes across the region under the banner of Operation Cleopatra, and again a year later.

    But the Crown Prosecution Service, which replaced the DPP, said the law stated it wouldn’t be fair to Smith to overturn a decision made nearly three decades before.

  15. bobchewie

    Disgraced MP Sir Cyril Smith molested a teenage boy in the House of Commons, it has been alleged.

    A former young Liberal activist described how he was 17 when the late Rochdale MP fondled him in his office at the Palace of Westminster.

  16. bobchewie

    was that standard practice by the police with councils? informing councils about raids

    • nuggy

      no it certainly is not standard practice.

      • bobchewie

        @nuggy after watching ‘the hunt for britains paedophiles’ it said in the video that they used anti terrorist force in the raid on paedo julian levine’s place..from what i gather the same thing happened with EGH..thats what made me wonder if it was standard practice..

      • Anon

        Actually, folks, it really is standard practice if the police think that vulnerable children will be present – they would require a social worker to be present at any post-raid medical examination. Exaro established this earlier this year, when it published the piece about Richmond receiving the heads-up ahead of the raid.

        So the police and Richmond did at least follow procedure on this particular point. Let’s not get carried away.

  17. bobchewie

    richmond council were informed of the raid by the police prior to the raid i believe…

  18. GMB Branch Officer

    I may have joined Richmond in 1991 but by 1999 LBRuT were well aware of my allegations of abuse I even have kept the letters and replies which clearly state the CEO @ LBR was fully aware of such allegations. Nothing was done. Sir David referred to me as a fox that they had shot. Well Dave you missed and this Fox bites