The School Of Economic Science, St James, And Child Abuse.

This is to notify anyone with information that there is now an ongoing Metropolitan police investigation into allegations of child abuse by former pupils at St James’ and St Vedast’s schools run by The School of Economic Science.

The investigation broadly concerns allegations during the 1970s and 1980s.

If you have information that may help then please email DC Katy Lee, of the Met’s Child Abuse Investigation Team, on


I’m very grateful to N for contacting me and all the former pupils of St Vedast who have posted their own experiences on the School of Economic Science forum for raising a topic which I had been hitherto ignorant of. More information and personal testimony can be found here. Sadly,  N’s testimony is by no means unique.

By N, a former pupil of St James

The School of Economic Science is a registered charity whose headquarters are now at Mandeville Place, London. You may have read one of their posters on the underground or read an advert or article in a newspaper, you may even have been leafleted by them in your own home. Like most you may not have heard of them at all. They offer courses in philosophy and economics with the promise of “making your life happier…” if you join. Originally set up in the 1930’s by Leon MacLaren (The pinstripe guru) with the support of his father Andrew MacLaren MP (they claim) to study the economist Henry George and to later hold courses in philosophy based on the Hindu, Advaita Vedante, Gurdjieff and Ouspensky with inspiration from Beatles guru the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who introduced MacLaren to Transcendental Meditation, producing a heady philosophical cocktail unrecognisable to most graduates in philosophy. In the 1970’s they opened their doors to children to be educated in their day schools St Vedast and St James. They claim to be a spiritual organisation although accusations of being a cult have plagued them since their conception. Both my parents were members of the SES and my brother and myself attended their school, St James, from the age of four although I also attended their nursery school, my mother was an employee. I wouldn’t blame them for the breakup of my parents marriage but they certainly contributed to it such was the way of this secretive organisation that delved deep into the most private of their members affairs showing the control they have over them. You may be baffled when they needlessly obfuscate with philosophical jargon when any criticism is levelled at them and which they then pompously disregard.

St James was a uniquely different school in many ways, I had a friend at another school, Latymer, for comparison. We were taught Sanskrit from a young age and all subjects contained a sprinkling of their philosophy. Later we were introduced to meditation. Television and pop music was at one point banned. I do have some good memories although they are mostly clouded by my experience at the school of the harsh regime instilled upon us.

I myself lasted ten years from the mid seventies. Our surroundings were cold and sterile as were the teachers. Blind obedience was expected which didn’t make me popular. Questioning the word of a teacher was of course insolence, even if you happened to be correct. My first experience of being hit would have been by my form teacher, Clement Salaman, which would leave marks across the back of both legs behind the knee, often bursting a blood vessel and leaving bruising. I was lucky enough not to have had my trousers and pants torn down and spanked but I saw it regularly. Even though corporal punishment was reserved for the headmaster, Nicholas Debenham, who used a cane, I was hit with rulers, board rulers, the slipper and cricket bats amongst other things by any teacher who wished to usually according to their mood or location and what was available, I was also picked up by my hair, shouted at and humiliated, regularly. I was hit so hard on occasions I flew across the room.

Caning was common place when you reached around age eight and one person I knew had the back of his leg split open, bleeding.  I remember being caned three times. The first was for the theft of two smurfs from the teachers cupboard and for lying. I received three strokes which left welts across my behind, I think I was eight. When my mother heard she asked to see and with tears in her eyes she told me it would never happen again. The second time I was caned it was for dropping a comb in class and therefore upset it. I received one stroke. The third time I was caned I received three strokes where I had done nothing at all, I managed not to cry until I got to the toilet where I locked myself in until I found my composure. Once I was sent to collect the headmasters bible for a class, I was astonished to see he had a selection of canes in his cupboard next to an army officers hat, the cane used on me was carefully reinforced with selotape. I have always been uncomfortable with this and figured he must have wanted me to see these judging by the look on his face when I returned. After the third time I was asked by a female teacher if she could see and needless to say we were all uncomfortable being viewed by the headmaster, amongst others, regularly in the showers. I was once held after school by my form teacher to do circuit training where afterwards a private viewing was achieved while I was told to wash my genitals. If you weren’t being beaten you were witnessing it or hearing about it as word spread about who had recently been caned which amounted to a climate of fear. To say the least it was a very abusive atmosphere.

The caning reached the press and there was an investigation along with the publication of the book ‘Secret Cult’ but there was ultimately no change. When I was punched my abusive father, who also once punched me, attended the school to visit the Headmaster. During a physics lesson we were made to practice singing as we had failed to impress the somewhat psychotic teacher, David Lacey, in assembly that morning. If we didn’t sing on cue we were made to do fifty squats and of course we didn’t sing on time. After two hundred and fifty squats I became dizzy which happened to me occasionally and sat down. I was then picked up by the teacher’s left hand and punched with the inside of his clenched right fist across the left side of my mouth splitting the gum inside on my tooth and then sent out until I apologised for my bad behaviour. I did not for months, which is why my father attended. I was disappointed when on the way home he told that I was to apologise and that I would end up in the gutter if I wasn’t careful which I had already been told by my teachers. I eventually summoned the courage to make the apology, although it went against every grain in my body, which I did between clenched teeth and more tears. I was then told to say that it would never happen again by the man who had a mad sadistic grin and look in his eye. My work suffered and I became, “lazy” I was often late and was regularly absent. I was always on report and finally the report card stated on the top, “Caned if absent or late”. Every teacher had to comment and sign the card which I had to present to the headmaster at the end of each week. Finally after around ten years I’d had enough although my brother managed to get through his A levels. I’d become immune to their form of discipline it was out of control, unfair and criminal. I openly confronted teachers and their accusations one of which I called a liar. My last recollection of an effort to make me conform was when the Headmaster sent me out of assembly for not singing loud enough, I had just recovered from tonsillitis. He repeatedly shouted at me to sing louder. In the end I just looked at him in a quizzical way and when I saw him afterwards red as a beetroot strutting up and down in front of me  in his cloak he threatened me and said if I ever looked at him again like that he would beat me like never before. I think the look I gave him spoke for itself, I was unmoved and nor was I scared anymore. I had already decided that I wouldn’t allow this to happen again and I think he saw that. I left the school very shortly after that. I attended a local school briefly where I was found to be clinically depressed and cut myself and was referred to a psychiatric hospital for children to be an inpatient however the funding fell through.

I entered into my adult life with the beginnings of a relationship with alcohol and cannabis which rightly or wrongly made me feel better giving me the opportunity to smile. I have worked as a sound engineer and chef, once on yachts and I achieved this with no qualifications. Unfortunately mental health issues have plagued me since I left that place. I wake sometimes sweating, where the bad dream seems to continue even though I am awake and I suffer considerable depression. I have seen numerous psychiatrists whose medication is too uncomfortable to use and I am prescribed diazepam for the bad times. I only became aware that I was considered to have Bipolar Type 2 and Post Traumatic Stress disorder, and that they believed the cause was as a result of the “abuse” I suffered as a child, when I was assessed by a mental health team when I became homeless after a bout of this depression. I was asked if I was sexually abused and have always been careful to say that I was not except that we were stared at in the showers, I wasn’t touched. I managed to get myself out of the hostel I was in which was filled with unfortunate drug addicts and alcoholics and into a housing association where I lived for around seven years.

It was there that my mother once called me to apologise and that all that I had said was true and that she had read other such stories, (which are far more eloquent than I could ever be, online which confirmed my claims. “What were we doing” she said as we both cried, “Good to have you back”I told her. She told me that she had now left the SES and that there was going to be an Inquiry which fuelled a glimmer of hope but also took me back to the bad memories. My contribution to the Inquiry was a brief hand written scrawl, I found it very difficult to achieve even that and it can be difficult to express yourself under these circumstances. I was clear to say that we were beaten for the same reason that they viewed us in the showers, they enjoyed it. There has been some investigation by different departments and the Inquiry concluded that we had been treated harshly and sometimes criminally and the caning was found to be legal. The viewing of us in the showers was ignored.

The inquiry was conducted after the retirement of the headmaster under the new one David Boddy, one time PR man to Thatcher and the conservative party. We were belittled before, as I was in the press by head of their legal dept Leslie Blake, a barrister, and Boddy, and after by the SES. No resolution or practical conclusion has ever been achieved, far from it. David Boddy manipulated and used the Inquiry to promote his school and in stunning disregard for us has named a room after the man that caned and leered at us in the shower, Debenham. He has used the Inquiry as a shining example of how they produced a procedure that other schools may use when found in similar situation, but it didn’t work and the sad truth is we were beaten by a sadistic pervert that had a penchant for watching boys in the shower and under these circumstances I do not imagine that his behaviour would be found to be lawful. It certainly has never been investigated properly and I think it should. I don’t care whether they are a cult or not but they certainly behave like one.



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157 responses to “The School Of Economic Science, St James, And Child Abuse.

  1. Neil

    “Forty Years On” and I don’t know who they think they are kidding. Perhaps this theosophic fiasco should consider that neither of their spiritual leaders are legitimate, as found in court in both cases, under their “Issues and criticisms”:

    All India can breath a sigh of relief as can the membership of Maharishi Maclaren’s schools:

    But, it begs the question how much money has been passed over the years by this “charity” to Mahesh, Shantananda and Vasudevananda taking into account their political ambitions? Why do they need a charity to promote Sanskrit and philosophy (or religious activities) in India?

    So, “Director of Education” sounds grand but in Laura Hyde’s February 2015 laughably rose tinted lecture she only goes to show how gullible, misinformed and misleading she really is. These people don’t change, they adapt. There has still been no resolution to the abuse we all suffered, there was a cover up. Essentially:

    ” David Boddy, their then chief spin doctor, actually lied to Channel Four News about nothing less than child abuse. No further evidence is needed to show the world what SES really is about.”

    • De Murry

      Guys Im not very familiar with forums. I was a pupil at St. James from the age of 4. I came from a family who all attended SES and were members of SES. Im trying my best just to write this comment but still 20/25 years after I started it affects me deeply. I genuinely feel like my childhood was stolen from me. I was abused phisically sexually and emotionally while I was there. I dont really know what else to say just that to anyone thinking of sending there children there, in whatever guise its presented, SES, St James etc, for gods sake don’t. Please don’t. My younger brother and sister both went there also and I did my best to protect them but there both messed up. If anyone can explain how these forums work a little better that would be really appreciated. I feel I can now share my experiences and maybe do some good. from D

      • M.H.

        ” If anyone can explain how these forums work a little better that would be really appreciated. ”

        This is really all there is to it. Do you have any other more detailed questions about how forums work?

  2. Neil

    The inclusion of a quote and reference to Lola Williamson in the Jyotir Math Wikipedia entry may have ruffled a few feathers at the Marylebone ashram which may explain the subsequent (but predictable) edit of the article.
    The edit of the quote and reference which said, ” Author Williamson writes that Shantanand was removed by the other Shankarcharya’s due to his “incompetence” and speculates that his relationship with the Maharishi may have been a contributing factor”, occurred just after my last post by someone claiming to be the author. The error has currently been corrected by somebody cosmic which you can view for yourself in the history page. I can’t imagine who may have attempted this particular cyber sabotage, I keep an open mind.
    Laura Hyde claimed in her 2015 lecture, “Forty years on”, that Shantananda was, “highly revered” but that has also now currently gone, coincidentally, as has any reference to either Shantananda or Vasudevananda.
    Anyway. Professor Lola Williamson has published her findings about these types of organisation, “Her book, Transcendent in America: Hindu-Inspired Meditation Movements as New Religion (New York University Press, 2010), uses Self-Realization Fellowship, Transcendental Meditation, and Siddha Yoga as case studies to argue that these and similar groups form a distinct category of new religion. Her edited volume with Ann Gleig, Homegrown Gurus: From Hinduism in America to American Hinduism (SUNY Press, 2014), examines the role of American-born teachers and gurus in creating a new hybrid “American Hinduism.”
    Reviews include, “Bringing together history and ethnographic interviews, Williamson argues that Hindu-inspired meditation movements are a distinct type of new religious movement, even if their followers and leaders may repeat the ‘mantra’ that they are ‘spiritual but not religious.'” – Religion Watch
    And, “The author explores the hybrid forms of spiritual practice that emerged in the West, especially in the United States, over the last century as a result of the encounter with Hinduism in its myriad forms.” – Frank J. Korom, Religious Studies Review.

    There is a real argument that these types of organisation be monitored and regulated, few can be found to be forthcoming with their true agenda and practices in a manner that you would expect from any other business.


    Thank you all again.

    Since I want to respect this blog rules, I don’t know how to proceed in order to get in contact in private with 97y454. Also I don’t want to bother Gojam and disturb the main topic of this thread with my personal worries.
    If possible I would appreciate if the host of “The needle” could send my email address to 97y454

    Have a great day!!

    • That I can do and have done.

      The rules are there to protect everyone from intrusion.

    • 97y454

      Dear Marina,

      I sent you an email.

      By the way, you wrote:

      “”The worse part of SES doctrine (at least the doctrine that is teached in Spain) is related to salvation: If you dont follow the Master, if you don’t attend sessions, if you don’t attend sanskrit lessons, if you don’t do second line work, if you don’t meditate twice a day dusk and dawn, if you don’t offer every single act you do to the Atman, you are condemned, you will burn in the flames of hell… but if you do all the things you master teaches.. then you are special, different,savvy,an elite, enlightened, a saint, better that others, you have been elected…”

      The doctrine of damnation and salvation taught by SES in Spain is precisely the same as taught at every other branch of SES in the world. Really, it is pure emotional blackmail from narcissists in the leadership positions who desperately need followers under their control. I don’t know what the AIS have recommended for your partner’s continuing recovery, but I would guess that understanding why this emotional blackmail exists will now help your partner recover.

      He’s made a huge sacrifice because the hooks they had in him were very real, even though the hooks were put into him by people with mental health problems. By going through this, by waking up, he’s more special than they are and has had to withstand a test that most people in the world never had to go through.

      • Neil

        You are responsible for your own recovery.
        Onora O’Neill’s lecture on Trust is where I started my recovery. I concluded from her lecture that without trust nothing could happen and therefore I had to learn to trust again.
        Grow up, harsh but true. Don’t be fooled by people using a psychological trick to trap you in a Father/Mother scenario.
        The rational understanding of our place in the evolutionary scale and memetics as defined by Professor Richard Dawkins may be found to be a turning point in a new age of intelligence rather than the belief in imaginary beings, could be useful. We are not saints we are perhaps clowns, act accordingly.
        The world is the most beautiful place, enjoy it and find friends who respect you for who you really are.
        The most important point I heard was,, “Don’t get bogged down.” Keep on moving but respect the times you need just for yourself. There genuinely are the most delightful, wonderful people away from this contemptuous, vacuous trap, that care.
        Empower yourself, write about your feelings but understand you are not alone. Find some strength in yourself before you may chose to publish, it may not always be a good idea! You are the most important person in your life.
        Go fishing.
        I’m going to write about all sorts of things. They don’t scare me now, I know the games they play (They are playing them now). Watch while they cook themselves and I eat them :)

        Anger is an energy – Mr John Lydon.

      • MARINA

        Thanks 97y454 for you comments, they comfort me.

        I like the way you depict how a person that has the courage to leave a cult is a kind of heroe. I will remember this idea anytime my partner seeks for validation of his achievement.

        You are right about AIS. They have a long and wide background surveilling and studing cults.

        They have explained in detail that SES procedures are not new nor original. SES mission, principles, brainwashing and blackmailing methods are exactly the same as other cults and high demmand groups along history and across geographies.

        Mr. Lambie if you think you are gifted and creative, you are not.
        Mr. Maclaren, Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Maharishi were not gifted and creative either. Sorry for the bad news

        AIS exposed that cults respond to one single basic disorder: paranoia.
        There are different types of paranoia in pschiatry. One of the most recognizable is Megalomania.
        Megalomania is one of traces that conform Narcisissm. As you may see, this is totally aligned to what you say in your post

        AIS has recommended to cut all ties with SES and to live normally with all the potential symptoms he may suffer caused by this dramatic breakup. AIS has terapy services for recovery if required by any ex-cult member.

        Thanks again and have a nice day all!!!


    Dear Neil, I like very much you post, it is very energetic and positive.

    Regarding what you say about:

    “The rational understanding of our place in the evolutionary scale and memetics as defined by Professor Richard Dawkins may be found to be a turning point in a new age of intelligence rather than the belief in imaginary beings, could be useful. We are not saints we are perhaps clowns, act accordingly”

    Dawkings ideas are suggestive and I like them, for example “The God delusion”. The problem comes when you say “the rational understading”

    My partner says that the “rational” is limited. He defends with passion the spiritual self that he believes is superior to the brain, the mind, the material. He despises rationality. This way of thinking is the product of 5 years at SES. He still has this sense of superiority, being special and gifted thanks to a deep and well trained spiritual self and life.

    These ideas are very engrained and it seems to me that even that he has left SES (formally) he still defends this position as the last link he has with SES. He might be scared of reviweing these believes. He needs time and lots of love.

    I’m enthusiastic to read soon whatever you want to write. Congrats



    • Lawman

      Hi Marina, having been a member of the School of Philosophy, as it’s known in Australia for over 20 years, and whilst I agree with much of what Neil is saying in regards to SES, the same cannot be said about every branch which exists. Each branch is largely autonomous and the way the School is run is largely down the individual leader at the time. Personally, I have never been the subject of the types of abuses mentioned or even witnessed it. Obviously, there are commonalities throughout the whole organisation, as there are in the various Christian churches or Buddhist groups, but not all branches of SES behave in the same way. With the greatest respect to Neil, you have swapped one idea about SES, the one experienced by your partner for Neil’s experience of SES in London from the 70s and 80s. My understanding from some people I have spoken to at SES in London was that abuse certainly took place and that the Inquiry fell short of the mark and didn’t really deliver justice to those abused children.
      Having said that, the various Schools of Philosophy around the world present excellent material drawn from most of the main philosophical and religious traditions of the world.
      Never have I been asked to alter my will, or even heard of it being asked of any student in the branch I belong to.
      Certainly, in the past when a building was being purchased to accommodate the students donations were asked for, as they are in any other voluntary organisation.
      If you’ve ever attended Church, they collect a fortune every week when they pass the plate around. No one seems to complain.
      In fact the Catholic Church is by far the biggest owner of real estate on the planet, including the Royal family and we don’t hear too many complaints.
      Maybe the best thing you could have done was to attend the School with your partner then you could have discussed it directly with him having experienced it for your self. It’s very easy to leave, I have done done so my self in the past and returned of my own volition.
      No doubt the organisation has its faults, but from my experience the benefits from attending the School of Philosophy have far out weighed the faults.
      All the best.

      • R

        The point to consider is whether by discussion the head of branch will change its mind over difficulties such as described or whether it will stick to its view. Change of heart doesn’t always follow as habits may harden or melt away?

      • Bernard Kroczek

        What is the point you are making? Your comment makes no sense at all.

      • He’s still involved with SES, hence the mumbo-jumbo

      • MARINA

        yes! I thought that I wasn’t able to understand the post since English is not my mother tongue.
        Now I feel better because this confirms that the post makes no sense = nonsense



      • MARINA

        Thanks for your words Lawman. Of course every individual has his/her personal experience. Mine is very much alike as Neil depicts except for the child abuse given that in Spain there are no children schools.
        SES is a cult and cults are no good places to stay. SES brainwashes, SES uses people, SES abuses the good hearts and souls that go there looking for answers, SES neither cares nor considers the friends and families of SES members, SES is not transparent, does not practice fair play. SES is built on the foundations of the narcisism of a series of egomaniacs and con artists: Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Francis Roles, Maclaren, Maharishi…
        Are you familiar with Opus Dei? It is a catholic cult founded in Spain by José María Escrivá in 1928. SES was founded in 1938 only 10 years later Its main text is the one written by José María. The title is “The way”. Gurdjieff method was called “The work”. All seems to me very familiar.

        Why an adult individual would want to put in the hands of other person his/her believes? why he or she would allow that person to dictate how to behave, how many hours of sleep, who to date, how to seat, how to dress, what music to listen to, what to eat… why some people need a guru and let this guru to dominate them?? what is wrong with that people? (except for the children that were put in those schools by their parents) why critical thinking is discouraged and even punished in SES?
        Good for you if you have founded better people in Australia. Do you know Michael and Nina Mavro?? I’ve read some things very very disgusting about their practices in Australia. I don’t remember if it was in Sydney or Melbourne.

        My partner asked me to go with him to SES and I refused, of course. I read all the BS teached there (he gave me his papers) . Sorry but that is no Philosophy. It is an amalgam of ideas put together just to support the brainwashing. I have a university degree in Humanities (this includes studies of philosophy, art, history, economy, literature, history of religions…)
        Imagine that your partner were a drug addict and you are a doctor so you know the bad effects of drugs on health. Then he or she offers you to try some.. “oh come on.. just a little bit… it is not dangerous… you’re gonna like it…” if I accept I would be CODEPENDENT. That would be a lose-lose relationship
        I higly recommend to read “The God delusion” by Richard Dawkins.

        Al the best for you too!

      • Bernard Kroczek

        Marina, you seem very well informed for someone who has had no direct experience of the organisation except by way of the somewhat biased, possibly for good reason, views of others.
        Your mind is obviously closed to any form of alternate view, which is not how a true philosopher would see the world.
        Mavro was sacked by MacLaren from the Sydney School in the 1980s for the very behaviour you have described.
        People in Australia are no different from the UK, Spain or anywhere else in the world, they are all seeking ‘something’.
        Its true SES is not for everyone but rest assured its not the monster you have been led to believe, a belief you seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

  5. Neil

    I still have nightmares of sexual abuse, rape actually, I suffer from Complex Trauma, “Surely I can be forgiven for choosing a spiritual path” my mother says. A friend of mine is found in a shallow grave. On three separate occasions I have tried to get the police to do something about it all but nothing. They told me the abuse I’ve described, on this thread, is defined as “Sexual Assault”, I was told they wouldn’t let it drop. I’m told by them something very strange is going on here. I’m told one of the reports I made was sent to an officer who doesn’t seem to exist. One PC, I know to be a liar, didn’t even send that report I made…until I chased it up.

    David Cameron once said on camera, “No stone will go unturned”. What a load of bollocks that turned out to be.

    One thing is for sure though, THEY ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.


    • R

      With the proposition of “Lawman” allow me to ask these questions:
      1. If the victim is free of the so called aggressor, which is better? To stay free of it or go again into the so called aggressor’s domain and entertain a discussion, which is likely to biased. So caution and care needs to be taken here. Is that not common sense?

      2. To balance a damaged person against a larger satisfied group, and say
      in the long run the damage is minimal; does that solve the victim’s suffering? I would think not. This see saw or so called balanced judgement is not at all adequate in this case.

      3. You say the organisation has some faults which you admit; and you say in your experience “From my experience” you value the the organisation is fine, but to presume your experience is better than the victims experience
      is misleading? Is that not so? The situation may have been entirely different?

      To clarify my question to Bernard Kroczek:
      There are traditional customs of the land people follow and also personal habits persons develop.
      Now suppose these habits good or bad, are practiced by the individuals. If one person (A) of authority says to person (B) take my advice or my good habit or disciple, but turns to be on the contrary to be destructive, then, what should the recipient follow? Do you understand my question?
      This case is an interactive case; Suppose the child, so called “victim”is facing a negative charge or a bad habit; which is better to follow from the position of the child? To accept, or not go along with it? Do you understand my question?

    • MARINA

      Great video. Thanks a lot.
      These AIS guys are smart. They’ve given me and partner very good advice.
      Today I have good news. Partner left SES around 2 months ago.
      Yesterday he told me that one of his classmates left school last Monday. It seems that his example is making people think and reflect. I have no further info yet.

      Have a nive day you all!!

  6. M.H.

    Dear Bernard Kroczek,

    Marina made a valid point that one doesn’t need to experience a drug to witness and understand the effects of the misuse and addiction to the drug. Ask anyone who has any kind of relationship with an addict.

    You replied to Marina:

    “Your mind is obviously closed to any form of alternate view, which is not how a true philosopher would see the world.”

    In truth you and Marina have what is commonly known as ‘a difference of opinion’. Neither opinion is any more or less valid or more meaningful than the other. But it appears that you don’t like her opinion, as you describe her pejoratively as having ‘a closed mind’ and not ‘a true philosopher’. This is itself ideological, fundamentalist thinking Bernard rather than open-minded.

    It is possible Bernard that when you have been taught what is described as philosophy, you have been introduced to a concept described to you as ‘neither accept nor reject’. Notice that you are now rejecting what Marina has said. Notice this paradox. Notice this paradox at work inside your mind. Open your mind to where this paradox has come from and wonder at how it has been established.

    By the very fact that you have rejected Marina’s point of view Bernard is it not equally true that your mind is ‘obviously closed to any form of alternate view, which is not how a true philosopher would see the world’?

    Is your rejection of Marina’s alternate view, according to your understanding of the term, what a ‘true philosopher’ would do?

    • R

      The “neither accept nor reject” is related emphatically to philosophical principle. To put it more simply in other words – it means ‘bear it in mind;” this “neither……etc., is related to reason when one hears either an opinion or another philosophical principal; the function of reason is to see it or hear the opinion and “separate the untruth from the truth.” In common activities
      generally some opinions are held as true unless proven otherwise.

      Let me if I make this proposition to show you the power of habit it may have on an individual if I may? Suppose someone for the first time is unhappy about life in general? It speaks to friend, but it doesn’t really bring about happiness desired. So that someone goes to mother and father, then here too nothing lifts the spirit? Then by chance that person drinks alcohol for the first time by experiment. (mmh! mm! it taste good! that person may feel?), In that very moment the sadness disappears! But then alas! the sad spell comes back? Then the memory of that alcoholic experience comes to mind an again mmh mmh I was happier then so I will have little bit more? This command may seem a harmless at that time. The ecstasy happens again at repeat in intervals; So many experiences ensue? Then this desire to be liberated from sadness and drink becomes obsessive to the point of becoming sick; deeply engrossed in chronic sickness? Why doesn’t that person have the strength to say no to drink then? Do you follow so far the story? So the individual is presented a drying session or two out; is given expert advice but the person continues the habit because by that time the habit has become almost second nature. Or the person doesn’t wish to listen good advice in order to give up this self inflicted deterioration. So a second form of prevention is given e.g.. give up this painful habit and maybe eat peanuts instead? A substitute the habit which less harmful?

      Suppose a philosopher comes along and asks the question are you really
      satisfied with the burden? then he asks are you this drink? Are you this state of mind? Is that the real you? The at that moment in the present
      the answer from within may come affirmatively “No” Then by constant reasoning that person overcome the habit. Or depending on the force of habit the answer continues to play its drama. Do you follow so far the chain of events and see how habit forces itself more and more. Despite given plenty of advice from the external source. So in this illustration it shows the strength of the pleasurable seeking having poor effect? So the effect goes
      with scenarios becoming more elaborate. So the person faces death? Here the desire to drink not longer satisfies? So that person is force to give up the physical habit but what about the face of repeated force idea, scenario of drinking is to be dealt with then? The observer and enjoyer of may then see the futility of this habit then he drops it! Do you understand how habit may work itself on many types of inner dialogues a person may wish to hold unto. All along the individual had the possibility of following advice that is to ditch the habit or continue until thing are really desperate.
      This may be a means to put a separation between the real person and the acquired bad habit?

    • MARINA

      Dear MH, thank you very much for your answer. You have put my thoughts in nice English words :)

      The meaning of the word PHILOSOPHY is “love for wisdom”.

      I’m not a philosopher (not a practitioner). I only have university studies in philosophy. And yes, I love to search for wisdom.

      SES teachings, as a whole, are not wisdom. SES borrows (maybe the word is “steals”) the thoughts created by others to build a sick bulk of ideas expelled by people with NO training and NO knowledge at all about philosophy, with the sole idea of creating a court of adepts that will keep on paying for classes and working in the extensive real state collection in the richest countries world wide. I’ll love to see SES in Ghana, Kenya, Cambodia, Bolivia, Sri Lanka…

      As a consequence of the so-called SES “wisdom” I’ve lived with an “addict”. SES imposed in my family some habits and rutines that implied that partner abanoned every social meeting o dinner just to meditate 30 minutes at dawn, that he refused to attend family or friends gatherings because he had to go to do second line work at SES, partner could not go to theater or cinema or concerts or exhibitions due to SES tasks or meditation. Also he could not visit his mother at hospital or take his father to doctor. Also suffered some breakdowns because he did not meditate 30 minutes, he olny meditated 28 and that meant the he was in risk of damnation. His daugthers have been screaming and asking him to stop meditation and he has refused to do it. Daughters asked him every day , dad when are you going to meditate??
      The worst part was to see a loved one suffering and struggling to meet SES requirements and draging us to SES black hole

      My family and I have been subjected to SES tirany, exactly the same as being exposed to a drug addict or an alcoholic.

      Why should I support a cult that is causing such harm to my family and myself? Why should I respect that?

      My partner freedom ends where my freedom starts. He weren’t concious of that point until I told him that I respected his decision to be a SES member but he had to respect my decision to NOT share my life with a SES member. That day he started to think in another way.

      Wisdom is there to make you free, no to make you a wimp, a zombie, a slave.

      Best for you all

  7. R

    So it may be said why show the force of habit? Does is not show that if you are projecting the past to the present and future it has its consequences? That if you are IN THE HERE AND NOW there is a chance to drop it and it’s scenario?


    For mind-openess purposes I recommend to visit:

    Thanks to 97y454 ;-)

  9. R

    If you can’t find wisdom anywhere else, then you may find it in yourself;
    but if this becomes habitual then it would become restrictive. That’s how habit addiction works!

  10. MARINA

    I you go to find wisdom at SES and you let them brainwash you and you do everything they tell you, then this becomes habitual then it would become restrictive. That’s how habit addiction works!

  11. R

    Thanks for the mimicry? It’s not important.

  12. This post is to notify anyone with information that there is now an ongoing Metropolitan police investigation into allegations of child abuse by former pupils at St James’ and St Vedast’s schools run by The School of Economic Science.

    The investigation broadly concerns allegations during the 1970s and 1980s.

    If you have information that may help then please email DC Katy Lee, of the Met’s Child Abuse Investigation Team, on

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